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Hello,with the announcement of 4e many people have gotten mad, and many have swithced to what they claim as more "stable versions". Examples, Pathfinder being the biggest one, and other RPG's entirely. What are your thoughts? Will you still support 4e in its final year or so? And have you loved 4e every step of the way? Now on a different note lets talk about 4e from the beginning to its oh so close end.

(Now before you read on, please know that my tone may seem rude, but really its just stating what I believe. That, and I'm tired of the ever growing haters. Play what you want to play)










With the release of 4e it got much hate, correct? Do any of you have a reason why? I think 4e is a perfectly fine system. Cut out powers, and add loads of munchkins and you got 3e all over. I don't see why so many people complained about 4e not being like previous editions. People also said its to MMOish, what is MMOish? Powers, roles, healing surges (Healing surges actually appeared in a RPG before 4e, though not called it. The RPG was Earthdawn)? Powers have always been there, not called powers, but still there (Examples include, called shots, spells, and prayers). And roles, oh man, roles. People said they are too restricting complaining that they didn't like getting labeled. I hate to burst your bubble but fighters always soaked damage and returned, wizards always stood back throwing the elements across the battlefield, rogues always sneaked around and done loads of damage, and clerics, clerics have always healed and kept the party together and alive. Do any of you? Maybe its just Grogs.

Now some where in the middle Essentials came out. Essentials were supposed to be more similar to older editions, yet still be 4e. Now that the Wizards cut (some) of the stuff people complained about like, some classes having powers (mainly martial characters), Loads of HP for monsters, and other tidbits. Wizards tried to reel in new players, and old, and yes I know selling books was required. I hate to say it but its hard to run a business when you can't make money off the things you create. So really why do people hate wizards when they try to make money? But anyways Essentials tried to fix what so many people said was wrong, and indeed it did fix some things. But apparently it wasn't enough. People continued to hate 4e without even trying it! Yes I have talked to multiple people that simply hate 4e because it new, and costs money. Actually most grogs I've ever talked to said they played 4e when it was released, and only a couple of times at that. I'm going to go ahead and say it: Core 4e wasn't that impressive! Core meaning MM1, DMG1, and PHB1.

Now we are in present time, and D&D NEXT has been announced. This cause many 4e players, yes our very own 4e players to turn their back on the game, and turn to older or other systems. Supporters of 4e are now Pathfinder players. Now don't get me wrong i respect all other game systems, and have played 1e, 2e, 3e, Basic, Pathfinder, and 4e. And they are all fun in their own way.

Well now that I've strayed from the main topic, I would like to return. Basically, if you forgot, I was asking if you will continue to love and support 4e even on it deathbed? I know, I, personally will still support 4e.

Feb 27, 2012 -- 8:06PM, Salla wrote:

As I have since day 1, I'll buy the books that interest me and not buy the ones that don't.

This. I'm only going to support what I like. I won't blindly support 4e, as much as I like its design goals.


I think the problem with essentials is that it aliented a part of the current fan base (who thought it a 4.5/ simply didn't like the changes), and I dont think it did enough to actually promote itself to new players. It required someone to find the red box at a store, THEN buy other books. They should have just advertised on TV. Not to mention, while "simpler" it made picking which books to buy even more confusing, because now there was 2 cores, one of which the experienced 4e players stood buy, and another which was new (and thus seems less core) and not embraced by all experienced 4e players.

As for holdouts, I don't think essentials did, or could, change enough to please them without alienating more of the current base.

At the same time, the green flag for D&D Next started a couple of months after essentials (maybe the summer at the latest, as its when they mentioned the played all the editions to do their research). This may or may not have been a result of sales of Essentials. Essentials may merely have been the "book of nine swords" of 4e. The new design structure of essentials also lead to lazier class design since so much could be re-used ,and there was much less choice (not saying there isn't some gems in the last year or so), likely needin less dev time as they produced Next.   


Its quite likely that when they reshuffled their release schedual/cancelled many books, it was because D&D Next had been decided.


And i'll disagree with the OP and say the original 4e core was impressive. It gave me a love for this game like i'd never experienced under 3e. Though I will say PHB2 'era' was the highpoint of 4th edition.

 4th ed has it charms and I had DDI for 3 years. On Sunday we are rolling up some 3.5 characters. Basically 4th ed slaughtered to many sacred cows and is was not the D&D I wanted. I do not mind powers in my D&D games but I do not want boring class after boring class designed around them. To many 4th ed books were like reading the 3.5 spell compendium.

Basically 3.5s probelm was that games tend to fall apart around level 9-12 or so. In 4th ed games fell apart because my PCs were bored and we never made it to the paragon tier. I couldn't find reliable 4th ed players either that would actually reliably turn up and play 4th ed.

 I was also a big Forgotten Realms fan and I cannot stand 4th ed Realms with a passion. Darksun and Eberron were decent enough updates. I also miss dead tree format Dragon and Dungeon.

 If I can have something resembling 3.5s modularity with 4th eds simplicity of DMing and I''ll consider it.