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1 year ago ::
Feb 27, 2012 - 10:42AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jun 14, 2006
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Why does Monte Cook think people want his bad rehashed 3rd edition with a 5e lable on it? I mean if people wanted to buy his game wouldn't Malhavoc Press be successful instead of a failed publishing company that produced a pile of junk gathering dust in the discount box of the local game stores.
The latest poll just goes to show how much D&Dnext will be just the same flawed game design that he came up with 10 years ago, it seems like they can not think of anything new and just want to repackage stuff....yes it worked with Pathfinder but guess what the customer base already has ...well.... Pathfinder for that.
It really comes down to the magic system, why must spell casters be the star of the show, why must we be stuck with a horrible system of magic?
There are so many good ideas from so many different people on these boards and others like enworld and rpg.net about alternatives to the old vancian magic system.
Feat tax to do something magical everyround....hell no not again.
The wizard stealing the show for one or two combats then making the party rest so he can do it again the next day....hell no not again.
Why Monte Cook? What does he bring to the table besides a bunch of old ideas and bagage?
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1 year ago ::
Feb 27, 2012 - 11:05AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Sep 22, 2007
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Well Monte and the design teams have hinted multiple times that they are trying to solve all the problems that you have mentioned.
1)Wizard stars: They have said that spells will not self scale and in order to get them more powerful you need to spend more resources.
2) Feat tax: We dont know what this feat tax could be. Maybe they will be like the 3.5 wizards bonus feats where every 5 levels you pick a "spell feat" so its on top of regular progression and not a tax.
3) 15 min worday: They have mentioned about an idea of limiting resting. IE if you just slept 8 hours you can immediately rest again.
4) Why Monte: Because some of us like Monte Cooks design. Also he isnt the only designer on the team...
Are all of these solutions going to work as they are now? probaby not. Is anything finalized? probably not.
But it shows that they are aware of the problems and trying to fix them.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 27, 2012 - 11:10AM
#3
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Why Monte Cook? What does he bring to the table besides a bunch of old ideas and bagage?
Not that I am completely in favor of all that Cook represents (for example, I don't like spellcasters at all), but it should be kept firmly in mind that one man's "old ideas and bagage(sic)" are another's hallowed traditions and nostalgic trappings.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 27, 2012 - 11:17AM
#4
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Just to pick a nit, but in 4E there is already a mechanic in place preventing back to back extended rests.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 27, 2012 - 11:25AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Sep 22, 2007
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Just to pick a nit, but in 4E there is already a mechanic in place preventing back to back extended rests.
Ah. I didnt know that. I guess it never came up when I played 4th edition as we never bothered trying to take more than one extended rest in a day.
But thats not really the point of what I was posting. I was just trying to point out that it seems that they are aware of the problems and trying to fix them. so all this negativity isnt very productive
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1 year ago ::
Feb 27, 2012 - 11:28AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Feb 12, 2009
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Yeah so far every actual player I have talked to pretty much just makes loud explative exclamations as soon as I say 15 minute workday. Pretty much the only people I have heard complain about it have bad DM's that even remotely lets this happen. The only time it should be extended rest 1 combat and then extended rest is if the 1 combat pulls every ounce of power out of your players as a requirement for completion. I can't speak to there actually being rules blocking the move but I will be looking back through the books to see if there are. I never needed to know a rule like that as my gaming groups would never even think that it was a possibility.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 27, 2012 - 11:28AM
#7
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I can dig it, like I said, just pickin' a nit 8)
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1 year ago ::
Feb 27, 2012 - 12:09PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2003
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Yeah so far every actual player I have talked to pretty much just makes loud explative exclamations as soon as I say 15 minute workday. Pretty much the only people I have heard complain about it have bad DM's that even remotely lets this happen. The only time it should be extended rest 1 combat and then extended rest is if the 1 combat pulls every ounce of power out of your players as a requirement for completion. I can't speak to there actually being rules blocking the move but I will be looking back through the books to see if there are. I never needed to know a rule like that as my gaming groups would never even think that it was a possibility.
You can not take two extended rests (and get the benefit) within a 12 hour period. That's the 4e rule. However it doesn't stop the 15 min workday (nor will the other mechanics the devs have mentioned in DnD 5e writeups). All one has to do is be relative safe for a full 24 hour period (rope trick in 3.x or it's higher level equivalents, magic circle in 4e) and you are set. You simply "wait" until you can extended rest again, and I've seen nothing in the DDN stuff that says you won't be able to do this in 5e.
-Polaris
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1 year ago ::
Feb 27, 2012 - 12:23PM
#9
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For me it's very simple. 5 encounters or more between extended rests will earn you normal experience points, 4 encounters between extended rests = 80% of normal, 3 encounters = 60%, 2 = 40% and 1 encounter = 20% of normal experience points.
With that tactic, my players are never tempted to have a 5 minutes or a 15 minutes workday.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 27, 2012 - 12:29PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Feb 12, 2009
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Yeah so far every actual player I have talked to pretty much just makes loud explative exclamations as soon as I say 15 minute workday. Pretty much the only people I have heard complain about it have bad DM's that even remotely lets this happen. The only time it should be extended rest 1 combat and then extended rest is if the 1 combat pulls every ounce of power out of your players as a requirement for completion. I can't speak to there actually being rules blocking the move but I will be looking back through the books to see if there are. I never needed to know a rule like that as my gaming groups would never even think that it was a possibility.
You can not take two extended rests (and get the benefit) within a 12 hour period. That's the 4e rule. However it doesn't stop the 15 min workday (nor will the other mechanics the devs have mentioned in DnD 5e writeups). All one has to do is be relative safe for a full 24 hour period (rope trick in 3.x or it's higher level equivalents, magic circle in 4e) and you are set. You simply "wait" until you can extended rest again, and I've seen nothing in the DDN stuff that says you won't be able to do this in 5e.
-Polaris
Polaris every time you try to refute this you use the example of people making an agreement to let it happen. If your whole group is okay with it then there is no problem. I wouldn't let this happen as a player or a DM nor would anyone I know. The only caveat I have for that statement is if we are in fact just in a no plot dungeon crawl where there is 0 story and 0 motivation then yeah that's fine and we have made an agreement that that is fine. Other than that there should always be repercussions and your character would know that and not just stop assaulting the Orc camp because you decided to use all your dailies in the first encounter. because you know even if you retreat that the orcs will come and find you. Magic circle is useless after a long enough time because your enemies can still see you standing inside of it and will just wait for the invisible wall to go down, or if they are intelligent they will bring over something that is completely unaffected by the circle and snap the circle. Same thing goes for an exodus knife. The exodus knife is even funnier because the party will get expunged in front of the people waiting for them to come out no mater what. you can't even use the exodus knife to skirt the no more than one rest in 12 hours rule because the exodus knife drops you out after 8 hours. If you just try to leave after novaing one fight the orcs will chase you down in the woods that they know better than you and will cause you great harm. No mater what your argument always comes down to the fact that the people playing agreed to let this happen in which case there is no problem because the people playing are obviously okay with it being a way to do things.
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