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1 year ago ::
Feb 23, 2012 - 4:16PM
#11
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Date Joined:
Jun 13, 2008
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I have to agree with the other's sentiments. I would probably drop my sub, it wouldn't be worth the $70/year for only the VT. I suppose I'm not surprised their statements have gotten more lukewarm over time.......
Old School meets New School at http://community.wizards.com/retrogamingvtgroup
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1 year ago ::
Feb 23, 2012 - 4:26PM
#12
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Date Joined:
Oct 19, 2008
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This would be the reason I use the offline tools that I do. And why I have them fully backed up. I will play whatever edition I want, and I'm not about to let them hold me ransom, as it were, to some new design paradigm that I'm not even sure I'll like. 
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- )Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition.Salla: opinionated, but commonly right. fun quotes
Show
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?
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1 year ago ::
Feb 23, 2012 - 6:09PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Aug 29, 2008
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as a Mac user I wish I had more (any) 3rd party options. I used to use the old offline CB under Bootcamp, but I had to get rid of the partition so I lost it.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 23, 2012 - 7:51PM
#14
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OP,
Why are you so suprised? The entire point of the GSL (and why it was written the way it was) was to ensure that when Wotc changed editions, they could stop 4e cold. Completely cold. That means cutting off the 4e support in DDI after a certain period. If Wotc believes that 4e people aren't switching over to 5e in "enough numbers", 4e support will vanish overnight and without warning.
-Polaris
There is no certainty here. If there are enough 4e players who are putting out good money and make it clear they won't switch to 5e in any case, support for 4e may continue for a long time, or it may end as soon as some top executive has a brainstorm. In essence, there is nothing WOTC can say that we should consider reliable. There are too many ifs involved.
However support for 4e is not likely to vanish without warning. It may be short warning, but we should expect an announcement, along with a pitch about how easy it is to switch over to 5e.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 24, 2012 - 7:21AM
#15
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Date Joined:
Jun 16, 2004
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Fortunately, there is a 4e offline builder support community out there, so my 4e tools will not disappear if WotC pulls the plug.
This is an important point. If WotC kills the online 4e CB, it won't make any real difference to me because I have alternatives. What it will do is guarantee that they get no more of my money, because (once there are no more 4e books to buy) they do not have any alternative ways of getting my money other than through me choosing to maintain my DDi subscription.
Ditto. I mean, just looking at the transition from 3e to 4e, and ignoring the people who went to Pathfinder....how many people just pirate the 3e books they want? If Wizards kills DDI, or removes all the 4e from it....what makes them think that people won't just pirate the material anyways if they don't want to switch to 5e?
edit: or just use the offline builder. Which, by the by, was better than the current builder.
Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid Copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade." "Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall, "But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all." -Kipling Defenders: We ARE the wall! I've replaced the previous Edition Warring line in my sig with this one, because honestly, everybody needs to work together to make the D&D they like without trampling on somebody else's D&D. Miss d20 Modern? Take a look at Dias Ex Machina Game's UltraModern 4e! I am a hero, not a chump.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 24, 2012 - 8:34AM
#16
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Date Joined:
Oct 19, 2008
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Fortunately, there is a 4e offline builder support community out there, so my 4e tools will not disappear if WotC pulls the plug.
This is an important point. If WotC kills the online 4e CB, it won't make any real difference to me because I have alternatives. What it will do is guarantee that they get no more of my money, because (once there are no more 4e books to buy) they do not have any alternative ways of getting my money other than through me choosing to maintain my DDi subscription.
Ditto. I mean, just looking at the transition from 3e to 4e, and ignoring the people who went to Pathfinder....how many people just pirate the 3e books they want? If Wizards kills DDI, or removes all the 4e from it....what makes them think that people won't just pirate the material anyways if they don't want to switch to 5e?
edit: or just use the offline builder. Which, by the by, was better than the current builder.
You forgot this: 
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- )Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition.Salla: opinionated, but commonly right. fun quotes
Show
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?
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1 year ago ::
Feb 24, 2012 - 8:51AM
#17
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I have my access to any offline tools as well, which has helped my group tremendously. I made sure to keep all that backed up. I'm currently running the campaign for my group, so I have a DDI subscription. The 4E tools are very helpful, such as the compendium and so on. Our group already discussed the next version and decided that we want to stick to 4E. That's not a slam against the next version. Even if the next version is great, we have such an investment in 4E and we love playing it that we decided we want to stick with it. So WOTC would be missing out on my money as well. I'd have no reason to subscribe.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 24, 2012 - 10:34AM
#18
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Date Joined:
May 17, 2011
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Ditto to all that. I am a subscriber to DDI because of the 4E online character builder, monster vault and compendium. If those go, I will have no reason to continue my sub.
Our party has become addicted to those tools... it just makes everything so much easier and quicker. Need a new character quickly... done in ten minutes (not two hours)... need some rewards for the party? Go to the compendium and get exactly what you want and print it out. Need to level a monster up or down quickly? Done.
One quick thought... I would make a guess that many of the DDI subscriptions represent not just one D&D fan/player/DM but probably whole groups of people. I know that WOTC would prefer that everyone would have their own sub but in our group of about 7 people, I am the only one who subscribes and we all gather to make characters together on the builder. Not ideal for WOTC to sell one sub instead of 7... but on the flip side, all of these 7 have also purchased D&D books, minis, a couple have purchased D&D board games for home... they have spent money. And if the 4E tools disappear and I as the DM drop DDI and D&D altogether, well... our whole group will drop off the WOTC radar.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 24, 2012 - 12:44PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Oct 25, 2009
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WotC needs to get out in front of this NOW before they lose the paying customers they still have. I know a LOT of 4e players who are getting ready to jump ship to a different system because they feel the edition is dying. This kind of waffling will probably push them over the edge. WotC is at least a year away from releasing 5e and I bet losing a lot of customers would hurt them where it counts.
Come on WotC, give us a firm commitment or you will lose people very quickly. You already know how hard it can be to get them back (ie - creating 5e)
Want to know more about the history of D&D, especially how to play older editions of the game? Check out Crazy Monkey's "Tour through the editions":
http://community.wizards.com/crazymonkey/go/forum/view/133793/225799/Asylum_Play-by-Post
The current edition is BECMI, the most popular form of Basic D&D and the adventure is the classic Red Box quest to kill Bargle the evil magic user. Check it out, learn about the games roots, and enjoy the story as it unfolds.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 24, 2012 - 2:15PM
#20
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2003
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WotC needs to get out in front of this NOW before they lose the paying customers they still have. I know a LOT of 4e players who are getting ready to jump ship to a different system because they feel the edition is dying. This kind of waffling will probably push them over the edge. WotC is at least a year away from releasing 5e and I bet losing a lot of customers would hurt them where it counts.
Come on WotC, give us a firm commitment or you will lose people very quickly. You already know how hard it can be to get them back (ie - creating 5e)
They (Wotc) can't. They can't because the decision will ultimately be up to mgt and that decision will depend on how well 5e does. If 5e falters even a little (by Hasbro standards mind you not real TRPG standards), then Wotc will yank all 4e support in an effort to inflate 5e as a last ditch effort by trying to force 4e people to convert. You are hearing it here first. That's why Wotc is waffling. They will not commit to something that they (reasonably) don't think they can follow through on.
-Polaris
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