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1 year ago ::
Feb 20, 2012 - 12:50AM
#1
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I started D&Ding with AD&D 1e and got really into it with 2e, so it's not like I haven't been around the block a few times. I enjoyed the game, but I do remember some quirky rules or "conventions" of the game that always sort of irked me. They were not necessarily "bad" or "unsound" mechanics. I just didn't like the feel of them.
The biggest offender for me was "Wands of X" and other magical items that had spell charges. In some cases it felt okay, like a ring that grants 3 wishes. But that felt okay because it echoed established fantasy tropes like Aladdin's Genie/Djinni, or any number of fairy-tales. 3 is nice number with good narrative rhythm.
But a Wand of X with 50 charges? Ugh. It felt awkward and artificial to me. Aside from some potentially unfortunate mechanical aftereffects (like a Wand of Knock devaluing the party's rogue/thief, or a Wand of CLW acting as a band-aid stick), the overall feel of this sort of magic gun with a clip of spells bothered me. It didn't echo any fantasy narrative I was familiar with, and all-around felt silly to me. I wasn't sad to see this convention go by the wayside.
Anyone else feel this way? Did you feel it for the same reasons as I? What were your reasons for not liking it?
Or did you really like these mechanics, and the feel they evoked? Did it evoke the same feel as it did for me, but you just liked it? Or maybe it evoked something that I missed?
Please share your thoughts.
Essentials zigged, when I wanted to continue zagging.
Roll dice, not cars.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 20, 2012 - 1:06AM
#2
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I was usually pretty neutral. I never LIKED it, because in many ways it felt like a patch for trying to solve the problem of casters running out of spells. I didn't care for the fact that the rogue was better served with wands of Knock and Find Traps maxed out Use Magic Device than actually learning to pick locks, either.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 20, 2012 - 1:19AM
#3
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I was usually pretty neutral. I never LIKED it, because in many ways it felt like a patch for trying to solve the problem of casters running out of spells. I didn't care for the fact that the rogue was better served with wands of Knock and Find Traps maxed out Use Magic Device than actually learning to pick locks, either.
Maybe that was it. "Oh no! Casters can run out of spells and be useless! Let's give them an easy way to circumvent their only real weakness!" Certainly that was a mechanical issue for me.
What about "feel", Salla? Did you like, dislike, or remain neutral on the idea of magic items with limited charges? Do you like what that evokes, setting-wise, or did it bother you?
Essentials zigged, when I wanted to continue zagging.
Roll dice, not cars.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 20, 2012 - 1:25AM
#4
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Yeah, it seemed to me that the correct way to fix the issue of casters running out of spells would be to make them not run out of spells (see: 4e's at-will powers).
As far as feel goes ... neutral. It was what it was. It seems most appropriate to a setting where magic has notable effects on sociological development (which should be all of them, of course).
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 20, 2012 - 1:32AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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Mmmm... I think it fits Eberron more than, say, Forgotten Realms, and surely much more than Dark Sun. It's something I think would be commonplace in high magic high technology settings, much less in settings where resource management is key (i.e. Dark Sun).
Are you interested in an online 4E game on Sunday? Contact me with a PM! Spoiler:
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Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept.
Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new.
Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept.
Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept. Ideas for 5ESpoiler:
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1 year ago ::
Feb 20, 2012 - 1:47AM
#6
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I never really liked it, it just always seemed well, necessary at low levels (I forget how many level 5 magic users I saw with wands of fireball or sleep, or staff of the archmagi). Then at high level...
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1 year ago ::
Feb 20, 2012 - 2:01AM
#7
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I do like the way wands are done in AD&D, but I don't much like the generic, "any spell under a certain level" can be put into a wand of 3E. It took me a little while to come to grips with the 4E method of wands: "They're really not storage devices at all!" was my first thought. Then I realized they ARE storage devices, but for (generally) only one spell at a time, with an automatic recharge capability (of 5 minutes or 6 hours). I would say that the wand mechanics (and powers, in general) were major driving forces in the way I built my 4E campaign world.
-DS
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1 year ago ::
Feb 20, 2012 - 2:28AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Oct 19, 2008
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I started D&Ding with AD&D 1e and got really into it with 2e, so it's not like I haven't been around the block a few times. I enjoyed the game, but I do remember some quirky rules or "conventions" of the game that always sort of irked me. They were not necessarily "bad" or "unsound" mechanics. I just didn't like the feel of them.
The biggest offender for me was "Wands of X" and other magical items that had spell charges. In some cases it felt okay, like a ring that grants 3 wishes. But that felt okay because it echoed established fantasy tropes like Aladdin's Genie/Djinni, or any number of fairy-tales. 3 is nice number with good narrative rhythm.
But a Wand of X with 50 charges? Ugh. It felt awkward and artificial to me. Aside from some potentially unfortunate mechanical aftereffects (like a Wand of Knock devaluing the party's rogue/thief, or a Wand of CLW acting as a band-aid stick), the overall feel of this sort of magic gun with a clip of spells bothered me. It didn't echo any fantasy narrative I was familiar with, and all-around felt silly to me. I wasn't sad to see this convention go by the wayside.
Anyone else feel this way? Did you feel it for the same reasons as I? What were your reasons for not liking it?
Or did you really like these mechanics, and the feel they evoked? Did it evoke the same feel as it did for me, but you just liked it? Or maybe it evoked something that I missed?
Please share your thoughts.
I've only experienced the old ways through video games, and can say that those charges made me never use the item in question for fear that I'd need it later. Meanwhile, wands and other magic of 4th edition made me feel like it was a daily, not "campaignly" decision to use magic items of any kind, least of all wands.
tl;dr I like 4th's version because I feel more prone to use them.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- )Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition.Salla: opinionated, but commonly right. fun quotes
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quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?
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1 year ago ::
Feb 20, 2012 - 3:34AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Nov 11, 2007
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I started D&Ding with AD&D 1e and got really into it with 2e, so it's not like I haven't been around the block a few times. I enjoyed the game, but I do remember some quirky rules or "conventions" of the game that always sort of irked me. They were not necessarily "bad" or "unsound" mechanics. I just didn't like the feel of them.
The biggest offender for me was "Wands of X" and other magical items that had spell charges. In some cases it felt okay, like a ring that grants 3 wishes. But that felt okay because it echoed established fantasy tropes like Aladdin's Genie/Djinni, or any number of fairy-tales. 3 is nice number with good narrative rhythm.
But a Wand of X with 50 charges? Ugh. It felt awkward and artificial to me. Aside from some potentially unfortunate mechanical aftereffects (like a Wand of Knock devaluing the party's rogue/thief, or a Wand of CLW acting as a band-aid stick), the overall feel of this sort of magic gun with a clip of spells bothered me. It didn't echo any fantasy narrative I was familiar with, and all-around felt silly to me. I wasn't sad to see this convention go by the wayside.
Anyone else feel this way? Did you feel it for the same reasons as I? What were your reasons for not liking it?
Or did you really like these mechanics, and the feel they evoked? Did it evoke the same feel as it did for me, but you just liked it? Or maybe it evoked something that I missed?
Please share your thoughts.
I liked the idea of charges. It made wands different from other magic items. Also, depending on their check, I would only give a rough idea of how many charges were left to create some suspense
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1 year ago ::
Feb 20, 2012 - 3:42AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2008
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I never really liked them that much. Basically they existed only because the system resource management almost required it.
I'd rather have a wand with 1 charge per encounter or X charges per day. Or a wand that lets you cast spell X by powering it up with a spell of same or higher level (spell expended without effect). Perhaps an artificer would then have a few extra "wand uses" on top of his spells as a special feature.
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