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12 months ago ::
Jul 11, 2012 - 3:57PM
#181
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Date Joined:
Jan 30, 2009
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Thanks! Now I just need a good Dwarf enchant so that he/she returns after each throw....
I suggest beer.
They always seem to come back for more.
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12 months ago ::
Jul 11, 2012 - 4:31PM
#182
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Since the expertise makes them heavy thrown weapons, as long as your dwarf is at least +1, it will return after the throw.
EDIT: If I'm a Reincarnate Champion dwarf, can I take this feat since one of my non-dwarf races qualifies me.
This is CharOp. We not only assume block-of-tofu monsters, but also block-of-tofu DMs.
One reach cheese'd threatening reach Spiked Chain shuts down any non-teleporting quarterback.
You're already refluffing, what not refluff to something that doesn't suck?
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12 months ago ::
Jul 11, 2012 - 9:57PM
#183
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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EDIT: If I'm a Reincarnate Champion dwarf, can I take this feat since one of my non-dwarf races qualifies me.
Key insight, well noticed! Now we can finally have a 1-man dwarf tossing team! Suck it, devs!
Wait. With any sort of magic enchant, he throws himself...but then returns to himself? I suspect this means he's not returning to the starting square. This is either bad because's he's thrown himself into melee range, or good because he's gotten some unclassified free movement out his ranged attack. I'll have to think about this.
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12 months ago ::
Jul 12, 2012 - 3:59AM
#184
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You people have no idea how difficult it is right now to refrain from making the obvious joke about CharOppers tossing themselves. 
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12 months ago ::
Jul 12, 2012 - 2:08PM
#185
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If, hypothetically, a theme was so good that it made Fey Beast Tamer, Guardian and Sohei all look like trash, but was limited to left-handed dwarf primal weapon users, then plenty of optimisers would be quite happy to build dwarf wardens and barbarians just to qualify for that theme. Likewise, if I'm playing a female drow avenger anyway, I want to know if these themes (for which I already qualify) are worth taking from a purely mechanical/optimisation perspective. In either case, it's worth including them in the guide, no matter how few players you think might ever use them.
Slightly back on topic.
Please do not confuse our posting a build with our willingness to play the build or our opinion of the quality of the content in the build. There are a very large number of builds that get posted and are disturbingly powerful but operate on an absurd loophole that pretty much everyone in this forum would never play and agree should be errata'd. Kulkor Arms Master is a perfect example of something fairly recently that afaik no one actually played in a real game ("lets go kill 4 gods at once" games do not count), and its nerf became a running joke in our monthly errata threads. Would we post a Dwarf Barbarian with a theme giving you twin-strike that can be used on a charge? Absolutely. Would we play it? The majority never would. Would we constantly discuss the probability of it getting nerfed? Most definitely. It would also be dual rated in the Barbarian and Warden guides, likely as Blue in general to draw your attention to the potential broken option if you play a Dwarf.
I don't particularly like that you tried to use dwarf wardens and barbarians (you forgot seekers, scouts, and hunters) as an equivalent example anyway, dwarfs are well supported and are the ideal warden race to begin with, it's just as true a statement to say that "plenty of optimisers would be quite happy to build dwarf wardens and barbarians" regardless of that theme. Now, if you had said Changelings with the Psionic Augmentation feature then you'd be closer. We'd still be saying "Racial and Power Source restrictions on Themes are absurd", it's possible to have nearly every power source on a character in Paragon regardless of class (in fact, you can have all of them at level 1 and actually have a really good character). Fluff should not dictate mechanical restrictions outside of racial and class features.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection. My Guides
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12 months ago ::
Jul 12, 2012 - 2:38PM
#186
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2007
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What character can be Martial, Primal, Arcane, Psionic, Divine, Elemental and Shadow at level 1? Never mind being good, I'm curious how that even happens.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
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12 months ago ::
Jul 12, 2012 - 2:53PM
#187
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Date Joined:
Jun 30, 2008
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Human. Hybrid executioner get you marital and shadow. Hybrid something divine, probably paladin, and worship an arcana diety. One feat for power of arcana. One feat for primal mc , psionic, or elemental mc. Psionic/Primal/elemental theme. That will get you 6 out of 7power sources at level 1.
Don't know if any backgrounds give you access to a source or if any theme has more than one power source.
Elemental initiate theme. That counts both psionic and elemental. So 7 of 7 at level 1.
my handbooks & builds
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12 months ago ::
Jul 12, 2012 - 2:58PM
#188
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I have no idea what you think I was trying to argue, Zathris. Your post doesn't (AFAICT) have much to do with the argument I was actually making, which was only that a rather narrow set of prerequisites is not in itself a good reason to leave something out of a CharOp guide. Either the game element in question is good (from a CharOp perspective) for at least some possible characters, in which case people reading the guide want to know that, or it's crap for everyone, in which case people reading the guide need to be warned away from the potential trap choice.
My hypothetical left-handed-dwarf-primal-weapon-user-theme was intended (rather obviously, I thought) to be a bit of reductio ad absurdum, not "an equivalent example". But a drow avenger isn't exactly a race/class combination only a scrub would play either, so I'm not sure why you take such issue with using a dwarf barbarian as an analogy. They're both characters somebody who comes here might easily be playing, so a theme usable by either of them is going to be of at least some interest to at least somebody reading this guide.
For what it's worth, I completely agree with the statements that "racial and power source restrictions on themes are absurd" and "fluff should not dictate mechanical restrictions outside of racial and class features". But those are not reasons to deliberately leave something out of a guide, IMO.
I mean, I can see leaving out all but the most relevant feats from a class guide, since there are about eleventy-billion of the bloody things now. But there really aren't so many themes around that you can justify leaving even one or two out of a theme guide just because they're a bit over-specialised.
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12 months ago ::
Jul 12, 2012 - 9:13PM
#189
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I was addressing various points and was on a bit of a time limit so I couldn't tie everything together at the end, either way it looked more like a Straw Man to me. Dwarven Berserker is iconic, Drow Avenger is something I have literally never seen or heard of someone playing in 24 years of gaming, enemy NPC Fighters that are Fanatics of Lloth is the closest.
Regardless, I had seen "Purple" stated so many times that I had assumed they would rated as such, I didn't realize you were simply arguing for their mere inclusion, which I'll agree with.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection. My Guides
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12 months ago ::
Jul 12, 2012 - 9:23PM
#190
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Date Joined:
Jun 29, 2007
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..with unclear fluff limitations that they're at best Purple. Both of them clearly call the character in question a priestess of Lolth...
Mechanically, though, the limitation is female drow divine class. The Lolth restriction isn't part of the rules text as far as I can tell. Given that female drow have +WIS, I'm not sure that these are so corner case.
Anyways!
From today's article, Elderboy looks okay on the defensive end. Shift Blame has some cheese potential for Defenders.
Melee-Magthere champion is pretty insane. It starts slow, but the L5 feature is amazing for a defender. And the L10 feature makes your fairly lackluster L1 power into a thing of beauty. Its L6 At-Will stance has some promise, too.
Sorcere Adept has some attack power swaps. The Daily 9 is ok. Rituals are never bad, either.
-O
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