|
11 months ago ::
Jul 10, 2012 - 1:57PM
#171
|
Date Joined:
Aug 25, 2006
|
I'm really not sure why this is a Dragon article about themes vs. a Dungeon article about potential opponents.
I wouldn't bet all my money, but I would bet money that they're related to the upcoming Menzoberranzan: City of Intrigue supplement.
|
|
|
|
11 months ago ::
Jul 11, 2012 - 1:24AM
#172
|
|
|
unclear fluff limitations
This didn't stop you from rating the BoVD themes. Or other themes like Masked Lord that come with very specific fluff implications by default.
A guide that deliberately leaves things out for non-mechanical/OP-irrelevant reasons is a guide that is not as useful as it could be. By all means, include a disclaimer that many DMs will disallow these themes (like you have for the BoVD themes), but don't leave them unrated.
|
|
|
|
11 months ago ::
Jul 11, 2012 - 8:12AM
#173
|
Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
|
unclear fluff limitations
This didn't stop you from rating the BoVD themes. Or other themes like Masked Lord that come with very specific fluff implications by default.
A guide that deliberately leaves things out for non-mechanical/OP-irrelevant reasons is a guide that is not as useful as it could be. By all means, include a disclaimer that many DMs will disallow these themes (like you have for the BoVD themes), but don't leave them unrated.
As I noted, Purple.
The limitation of being a female divine drow of Lolth means the number of people who worked on this article is likely larger than the number of players who will use the themes. If they had listed it as a monster, it might have gotten some wider use. If it had been for a deity other than Lolth that focused on hiding the true deity of the servant, that might have gotten wider use, too.
BoVD and Masked Lord are different in that the fluff guides PC actions, but in general, they're not mechanically limited to a very, very narrow subset of PCs.
NETH4-1 Containing Shadow (co-author) Handbooks
Show
Builds
Show
|
|
|
|
11 months ago ::
Jul 11, 2012 - 8:29AM
#174
|
|
|
As I noted, Purple.
Well, OK. But is that the rating assuming the character actually qualifies for these themes, or are you including a 'mark-down' for being ludicrously over-specific?
The limitation of being a female divine drow of Lolth means the number of people who worked on this article is likely larger than the number of players who will use the themes.
Sure, and I'm already arguing with Mr de Bie about that!  But the important question is whether they are mechanically any good for the characters who can actually use them.
If, hypothetically, a theme was so good that it made Fey Beast Tamer, Guardian and Sohei all look like trash, but was limited to left-handed dwarf primal weapon users, then plenty of optimisers would be quite happy to build dwarf wardens and barbarians just to qualify for that theme. Likewise, if I'm playing a female drow avenger anyway, I want to know if these themes (for which I already qualify) are worth taking from a purely mechanical/optimisation perspective. In either case, it's worth including them in the guide, no matter how few players you think might ever use them.
|
|
|
|
11 months ago ::
Jul 11, 2012 - 8:39AM
#175
|
Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
|
If, hypothetically, a theme was so good that it made Fey Beast Tamer, Guardian and Sohei all look like trash, but was limited to left-handed dwarf primal weapon users, then plenty of optimisers would be quite happy to build dwarf wardens and barbarians just to qualify for that theme. Likewise, if I'm playing a female drow avenger anyway, I want to know if these themes (for which I already qualify) are worth taking from a purely mechanical/optimisation perspective. In either case, it's worth including them in the guide, no matter how few players you think might ever use them.
Lolth = evil and poor domain choices.
I didn't say I wasn't going to include them in the guide. Just I'm going to rank them Purple as they're basically the definition of corner-case.
NETH4-1 Containing Shadow (co-author) Handbooks
Show
Builds
Show
|
|
|
|
11 months ago ::
Jul 11, 2012 - 9:42AM
#176
|
|
|
left-handed dwarf primal weapon users.
So...
It's a theme that let's you wield a dwarfs left hand?
Or can you wield dwarfs in your left hand?
Or can you wield dwarfs who are left handed while being primal?
Or can you wield dwarfs who are primal in your left hand?
Or can you wield dwarfs who are left handed and primal?
I mean, dwarfs make the best mounts, so if you could wield one... then you could throw the dwarf, while being on the dwarf, and all sorts of stuff.
guides
Show
my builds
Show
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
|
|
|
|
11 months ago ::
Jul 11, 2012 - 11:21AM
#177
|
Date Joined:
Jun 30, 2008
|
Purple is correct. Out of the 100+ PCs I have seen in play I don't think I have ever seen one that qualified for this theme. I am not sure I have ever even seen a female drow PC and have only seen a tiny number of drow at all.
Themes in general were originally supposed to be things you could slap onto any PC to make them stand out from other members of the race or class. Both your Dwarf/fighter or elf ranger could slap on the gladiator theme and it would make them different from similar ones that picked wilder or primal guardian or whatever.
But its gotten to the point where they occasionally had moderate restictions like fey race or wizard to where its so specific you have to build almost intentionally build your PC to fit the theme not use the theme to tweak the extisting PC.
Its sad since themes started out with so much potential and Wotc gave up after a while.
my handbooks & builds
Show
|
|
|
|
11 months ago ::
Jul 11, 2012 - 12:55PM
#178
|
Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
|
It's a theme that let's you wield a dwarfs left hand?
Or can you wield dwarfs in your left hand?
Or can you wield dwarfs who are left handed while being primal?
Or can you wield dwarfs who are primal in your left hand?
Or can you wield dwarfs who are left handed and primal?
I mean, dwarfs make the best mounts, so if you could wield one... then you could throw the dwarf, while being on the dwarf, and all sorts of stuff.
Infuriatingly, this seems to be a classic case of rules ambiguity. What class of weapon do dwarves fall under? And with what properties, if any? (I'd advocate maces with the heavy thrown property myself, and maybe high-crit.) Because if they're undefined, a dwarf ends up being an improvised weapon, and only fighters with arena training or other amorous dwarves will touch them, and then only in an emergency (in both cases).
Useless.
|
|
|
|
11 months ago ::
Jul 11, 2012 - 1:40PM
#179
|
Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
|
Sigh, since some people don't seem to have DDI to just look it up... Dwarf ExpertiseHeroic Tier
Prerequisite: Non-Dwarf
Benefit: You can use any Dwarf one-handed as a heavy thrown weapon as if they were a warhammer. Normal range for Dwarves you wield this way is 3 squares, and long range is 6 squares. In addition, you gain a +1 feat bonus to weapon attack rolls that you make with a Dwarf. This bonus increases to +2 at 11th level and +3 at 21st level.
NETH4-1 Containing Shadow (co-author) Handbooks
Show
Builds
Show
|
|
|
|
11 months ago ::
Jul 11, 2012 - 1:50PM
#180
|
Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
|
Thanks! Now I just need a good Dwarf enchant so that he/she returns after each throw....
|
|
|
