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1 year ago ::
Feb 05, 2012 - 6:57PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jan 16, 2012
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I may be in the minority here (or perhaps I'm just an old guy), but in the next version of the game we all love can we go back to the idea that clerics heal folks?
The healing surges/second wind mechanic from 4e felt very wrong to me. I know we are playing elves and wizards and such, but having a fighter "magically" heal himself didn't even make sense within the fantasy genre from which D&D was born. Having the clerics heal with spells just made more sense - they channeled the power of their gods and the gods granted healing.
We don't need to have every class be able to do the things other classes can. Niches are good. You don't spend your whole life studying the powers of the cosmos to become a mighty wizard and also be the master at the great sword. If you want to do both, you aren't going to be as good at either as someone who focused on only one.
Multiclassing is good. Sacrifices are good. But let's return to more logical things....please?
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1 year ago ::
Feb 05, 2012 - 7:06PM
#2
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Sure. Just let fighters be the only ones who do damage. And rogues the only one with skills.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 05, 2012 - 7:07PM
#3
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The idea that the living body can recover from exhaustion and pain is 'illogical'?
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 05, 2012 - 7:12PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Oct 12, 2011
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You want to play Palladium Fantasy.
That is the game you want, go check out Palladium Fantasy, it has everything you desire D&D to be.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 05, 2012 - 7:13PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Apr 10, 2009
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I'd agree with you - if only the loss of hit points represented physical damage and only physical damage.
But since it doesn't, since it also represents fatigue, pain, even morale - I have no problem with non-magical healing.
I'm not saying that the 4E system can' t be improved upon. I just don't necessarily agree that healing need be restricted to spellcasters
Carl
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1 year ago ::
Feb 05, 2012 - 7:13PM
#6
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The "more logical thing" is precisely what people said to correct before 4e came out. No one wanted to be forced into the role of a healer, so we got a workable self healing mechanic. The fighter didn't "magically" heal himself. He gritted his teeth and worked through the pain. The fact that this abstraction is lost on some people tells me how literally those people take the words "health points".
Clerics are natrually going to be a superior brand of healer. They always have been and always will be. But that doesn't mean that if a party wants someone to be able to heal them that only the guy playing a Cleric should be able to do it, or any leadery type class for that matter. Self healing is important. It's not entirely out of the scope of possibility that when the Ranger takes his second wind he's really using some mystic forest medicines to help close wounds and numb pain away. How you can flavor the mechanics is only as limited as your own imagination.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 05, 2012 - 7:17PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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I'd agree with you - if only the loss of hit points represented physical damage and only physical damage.
But since it doesn't, since it also represents fatigue, pain, even morale - I have no problem with non-magical healing.
Carl
Not to mention luck and the depletion of miraculous and magical energies ... atleast according to EGG.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 05, 2012 - 7:26PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2005
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I may be in the minority here (or perhaps I'm just an old guy), but in the next version of the game we all love can we go back to the idea that clerics heal folks?
The healing surges/second wind mechanic from 4e felt very wrong to me. I know we are playing elves and wizards and such, but having a fighter "magically" heal himself didn't even make sense within the fantasy genre from which D&D was born. Having the clerics heal with spells just made more sense - they channeled the power of their gods and the gods granted healing.
We don't need to have every class be able to do the things other classes can. Niches are good. You don't spend your whole life studying the powers of the cosmos to become a mighty wizard and also be the master at the great sword. If you want to do both, you aren't going to be as good at either as someone who focused on only one.
Multiclassing is good. Sacrifices are good. But let's return to more logical things....please?
The fighter can't magically heal himself. It's called Second Wind for a reason. It is just that. It is also something you can only do once per encounter.
Clerics DO heal in 4e, and they are the best at it. If a Fighter has to use Second Wind, things are going very badly. The leader is probably out of healing, and the Fighter has to give up his standard action to burn a healing surge which is FAR less efficient than if a Cleric had healed him. So, no damage, no mark, no conditions, nothing. Just a flat 1/4 hp heal.
One other thing. You seem to sitll be caught up on the idea that hp = health. They do not explicity represent health, nor have they ever done so.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 05, 2012 - 7:42PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Apr 23, 2009
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While I don't disagree with the arguments for surges here at least from a logical standpoint, the fact still remains that healing surges destroy my immersion in the game. I think most of the people hating surges feel the same way. It just doesn't feel right. It's hard to get over it.
So I've been thinking of ways of achieving a similar effect without destroy our sense of versimilitude while still solving the problem that surges is addressing.
1. Limit the number of times a player can receive a healing power of any sort to x number of times per day.
2. Make healing cheap and easy. Healing potions that do a surge worth of healing can be purchased for a trifle.
3. Clerics and other healing classes still heal magically.
4. Non-magic classes that used to provide healing now have abilities that permit them to allow another character to drink a potion as a free action.
I think the above would go a long way towards solving some of the versimilitude issues while still covering the needs of the surge concept.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 05, 2012 - 7:49PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Dec 25, 2009
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Healing surges are nothing more than an expression of the Encounter vs Daily mechanic.
Hit points are your "Encounter HP", while healing surges are your "Daily HP". You have a limited amount of HP per encounter (based on how many surges you can access in an encounter, which will depend on party composition), and you have a limited amount of HP per day (based on your surges per day). They are two separate limits.
That's the mechanical separation that surges provide. If you want to come up with a way to replace surges, then that's your goal. Everything else is secondary to providing the ability to separate HP into an encounter resource and a daily resource in one.
(I don't entirely think this is a good thing, btw, but it's the thing that surges do.)
The difference between madness and genius is determined only by degrees of success.
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