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Feb 5, 2012 -- 10:04AM, WolfLordBran wrote:

The problem I've seen with this though is you get a Mage trying to cast some sort of weird Faraday(spelling?) Cage or completely rendering a creature/encounter useless by doing something with their magic. Which then runs into the problem of the Fighter, Paladin, and Rogue looking at the Mage in question and saying "We'll be at the Tavern, give us a Sending when you're done here."

This is one of the concerns my gaming group brought up with this. One person said, "Well, I'll just surround the monster in a magic wall, then I'll fill it with water and drown them," or some such nonsense.

I was a little puzzled by this. First he assumed that the cage would last forever once it was cast. I explained that it would last until the start of his next turn, and if he wanted to, he could continue trying to keep the magic going with the same roll (and damage he took) to create it. And the more powerful the creature he's trying to contain, the higher the DC would be as well as his loss of life to keep it going. That's nothing to say of the water and combat lasting only 6 seconds per round. He'd kill himself trying to maintain the wall long enough.

But again, the magic being used wouldn't be so drastic. If I were to write something up, it'd explain that magic is far more subtle and just manipulative of the environment around you. Is the monster standing next to a lit brazier? You could have the fire errupt out of it and damage the monster. Is the monster standing in hindering terrain made of roots and brambles? You could have the roots tighten around its feet and immobilize them until the start of your next turn.

So what I'm looking for is something that is open ended and dependant more upon creativity and roleplaying as opposed to creating Genie of the Lamp-style casters with semi-phenomenal, nearly cosmic powers.

Feb 5, 2012 -- 11:03AM, Reg06 wrote:

I don't think you'll get that with D&D. The system is too codified, structured, and well balanced to function in the way you're looking for.

Actually, D&D does allow it to some degree (well, at least with 4E, if you allow Arcana or an ability check associated with your class' primary ability modifier [like INT for wizards, CHA for sorcerers).

However, this is best played as a series of checks, depending on the level of the task.  Let's take the "make a cage, drown enemy in water" scenario.

1. He casts the spell.
2. At the start of his next turn, he must make an Arcana check as a minor action (Hard DC) to sustain the effect of the spell.
3. He casts the fill-the-cage-with-water spell as a standard action.
4. Follow the rules on drowning (DMG p.159, or RC p.180).

The rules effectively state that the creature he's attempting to drown would have three minutes before suffocation.  That means that before the target creature actually drowns, he needs to sustain the Cage spell for 30 rounds before the target creature starts making Endurance checks, DC = 20 + 5 for each succeeding round, and failing the Endurance check results in first a loss of healing surges, then damage equal to the creature's level.

Let's assume we adjust the per-round from 6 seconds to 1 minute (pre-3E setting).  That's still 3 rounds before suffocation.  And even if the target's Endurance is so low, because a monster has 1 healing surge/tier -- something people often forget -- that's at least 4 rounds before the target takes damage.  Assuming the creature is a level 1 artillery with 4 CON, that's still a total of 14 rounds before it dies.  34 rounds if we use official rules instead.

That's a lot of effort for very little mechanical benefit, really... but whatever floats his boat *shrugs*