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1 year ago ::
Jan 31, 2012 - 11:50AM
#11
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Date Joined:
Apr 16, 2005
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I give credit to your dm for letting the cards lay where they fall. He designed an encounter and didn't change the program after pressing Go.
On the other hand, I personally would have gladly bent the rules. Especially if you're doing the players a favor by doing so.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 01, 2012 - 11:51AM
#12
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Date Joined:
Jan 10, 2012
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how experienced is your DM at DMing? if the DM is new, give him the benefit of the doubt and the opportunity to grow. Either way, i would speak the the dm. maybe, there is something else going on in his life that is influencing him to tend to being annoyed. Remember, when you approach him let him know how much you enjoy his effort and the fun you have. Then say that sometimes when you get upset it breaks the spell of fun. Maybe together you can come up with someways to constructively deal with player improv.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 01, 2012 - 2:11PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Aug 30, 2010
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Speaking as a DM that has had players do unconventional things and derail my plot points, while I may openly weep at seeing my well-laid plans crash die in a fire, I would never want that to discourage the creativity of my players.
You kids have fun. I'll go back to the drawing board and laugh at my new maniacal design for the next session.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 01, 2012 - 2:22PM
#14
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The DM is the one in this situation who needs to adapt. He wrote a script when he should have been setting a scene. What he needs to learn from this is that it's a DM's job to make an awesome story happen as the result of what the heroes do, whatever that may be. The party needs to have the freedom to shape the story with their actions.
That means the path to victory needs to be broader than defeating a series of encounters by doing specific things. It's fine for a villain to plan to bury the heroes under waves of his henchmen as he stands on the sideline gloating; it's dangerously presumptuous for the DM to present the party with a group of enemies and expect them to fight them in a specific order. If the DM's plans and the villain's plans are one and the same, they're going to go down together.
If everyone is interested in playing a campaign that's about heroes defeating villains just as their villainy was about to come to catastrophic fruition, then it might be useful for your DM to create a stable of villains. That will allow him to trot them out and use them throughout the campaign while still insulating the campaign against the party outsmarting them or defeating them early or even trivially. The goal is to have a memorable, fun campaign, and sometimes the most memorable sessions are the ones where someone completely blindsides some would-be evil genius. The trick is for the DM not to be that would-be evil genius, so he can cheer for the heroes too.
"When Friday comes, we'll all call rats fish."
D&D Outsider
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1 year ago ::
Feb 03, 2012 - 9:41AM
#15
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Date Joined:
Sep 21, 2009
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i HIGHLY suggest sending your DM to the "what's a DM to do?" forum. Be sure to have him crosslink this thread so that the posters in that forum can see both sides (and the fact that you guys seem to genuinely want your DM plots to work).
I, and i'm sure many of the other posters in the DM to do forum have LOTS of advice for this DM. Furthermore, the advice is constructive to all parties....ideas to let the BBEG do his thing, NOT get killed, and still leave the party feeling satisfied.
an example might be something along the lines of the party reaching somewhere, fighting someone high up, but not completely in charge, with a "hologram" of the REAL power watching the fight....he can see what the party does, he can talk to them, he can deliver his monologue, and the party really can't do much to him....they still get the BBEG they're looking for down (satisfaction), they learn about a new threat (interest), they realize this person has or is collecting information on them, or knows they are coming (trepidation) and the enemies that are dead are the ones that are supposed to be dead.
as far as the PLAYERS are concerned....keep in mind your DM seems very willing to say "yes" to your party's ideas. You want to make sure what you are asking is good for your characters and the story. Also, see if you can help the DM come up with improvisation for your crazy ideas.
take the example you just gave in the original post. What if, after the BBEG died to your striker, if the rest of the monsters surrenderred (or even defected) and gave you the info you needed. If your DM is open with his INTENTIONS, the party can help him come up with the story that fits his intentions if his original plan falls through.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 03, 2012 - 10:10AM
#16
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Date Joined:
Mar 25, 2010
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As a GM, I always have to be prepared. You cannot predict everything that others may think of or come up with during gameplay. I actually reward createive thinking. If it happened to me, I would be like 'oh well, I'll know better the next time'. And in the interim, I would find some other way to get the info out to my players, since they killed the squealer. In the case of my Gamma World campaigns, I would of had the adle brained antagonist leave some clue for the players to find in the aftermath with a skill check. And in the end, I learned a bit more about my players and their abilities. And guranteed there will be no 'fool me twice'. 
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1 year ago ::
Feb 20, 2012 - 7:19PM
#17
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Date Joined:
May 19, 2011
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Things my players have done I did not expect or plan for as a DM.
A player shoves a companion NPC down a pit to see how dangerous it is at the bottom. When she sees that it's safe, she jumps down, aces her acrobatics check, gracefully lands with no fall damage, and laughs at the companion.
The party convinces the same companion NPC to eat all the food they find in a dungeon, to discover whether or not it is safe for them to consume. A lot of it wasn't.
The companion finally meets his end, crushed by a silt golem. At no point did anybody in the party ever attempt to help him not fail a death saving throw. The party quickly harvests his vital life fluids and feasts on the good parts so they can survive one more day in the wilds of Athas.
Captured an antagonist / minor villain, questioned him for information, and after he agreed to help the players reach their goal, the Warden smashed his head to a bloody pulp.
Wild Mage changed genders.
Discovered a secret entrance to an underground vault where they were to get an item to pay off a debt, were able to leave the same way they came in, unnoticed, yet proceeded to go upstairs into the home to ransack and loot the place.
Party claims a lost chaotic orb artifact. The Bard quickly hides it, replacing it with a similar looking orb. The party destroys the fake orb, convinced that the evil from it has ended. The Bard smiles and chuckles quietly.
Were ambushed by Sand Brides who crit-failed their surprise round attacks. Party completely turned my Sand Bride ambush around. A "good" character reached a snapping point, and tortured and murdered a subdued Sand Bride.
Any DM worth his salt should be ecstatic when the party doesn't do something according to his plan. A DM should be flexible. Part of being a DM is that you're a storyteller of sorts. And the best DM's weave the unexpected into the fabric of the reality of the campaign.
Being a new DM could be tricky, but I never told my players they couldn't do something. And my players doing the unexpected has helped me improve as a DM.
Saying that, don't push your DM just to see how far he bends before he breaks. If he's a good one though, he'll learn from any shortcomings, and start mapping out more eventualities in his head.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 28, 2012 - 12:11PM
#18
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We recently can to the end of a major plot like where we fought an epic battle with the main antagonist, the encounter was laid out so our characters would have to fight our way though a few standard monsters before reaching the antagonist.
Our DM planned for the encounter to go like this: we fight our way though the monsters, while the main enemy buffed them, then after the monsters were killed the antagonist would surrender and reveal come information about the next plot line.
However our striker, who is a little crazy and got very lucky managed to take out the antagonist by jumping the gap that kept us from him.
And this isn't the first time we've done something along those lines, it seems every few encounters one of us has a great idea to use the environment or a skill challenge to give us an edge, to be honest our skills seem more useful than our powers at times, and it's good fun for us thinking of this stuff.
The DM was a little moody at the time that his work planning this encounter and his plan for the plot went to waste, but he's over it now. The rest of us are now a little worried about something similar happening again though, because even though we enjoy fighting like that and it adds a bit of fun to the session for us, sometimes it causes tension between us and the DM.
Do you think we should tone it down to give our DM a break, or talk to him about it or what?
Sounds the DM subscribes to the "Me vs. Them" mentality along with the inability to cope with the players being able to do anything other than stay on his railroad path to the end as he sees it.
This doesn't make him a bad person, but it does make him a DM that needs some help.
Sadly, there isn't much you can do as players to help him without hurting your own fun. Because as players, you're SUPPOSED to foil his plans. You're SUPPOSED to overcome the challenges. He doesn't understand this simplest of truths. Worse still he cannot prepare for it.
Your best bet would be to have one of the most experienced players take the reins for awhile. Write up a short campaign (or a long one) and let the DM enjoy being on the other side of the screen for a change. Sometimes, that's all it takes to turn a bad DM around.
It's worth a shot.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 02, 2012 - 3:44PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Feb 10, 2010
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So while a DMs job is to run the campaign and adapt to the needs of the player it is a cooperative game. Everyone at the table is supposed to be having fun, not just the players.
From my own experience when a DM (myself or another) is your DM for a very long time it can drain the fun out of the game because, well, you always "lose". The party is supposed to win on most casual tables so being the guy that always gets his ass handed to him can blow sometimes. Honestly I think what your DM needs more than anything is to see you sweat. If it's true that you break his plans all the time he's probably feeling a bit of a fool when you easily hurdle his best layed plans.
I would point him to slyflourish.com as that guy builds some of the most positively challenging encounters I've seen on the internet. While your currently using these smart plays, skill challenges, etc. to trivialize the fight you'll have to be doing them just to survive.
Everybody needs a win from time to time :P
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1 year ago ::
Mar 11, 2012 - 5:31PM
#20
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Date Joined:
May 19, 2006
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i HIGHLY suggest sending your DM to the "what's a DM to do?" forum. Be sure to have him crosslink this thread so that the posters in that forum can see both sides (and the fact that you guys seem to genuinely want your DM plots to work).
I would very much like to see this as a new advice thread, where both sides get to post their thoughts on the situation.
I've had plots derailed in the past and the first thing that goes through my mind is "well, there goes a week's worth of planning". For my campaign arcs, plot important characters often have friends who can rez then. It also sets up the story to introduce the next bbeg as the party begins to wonder why Lord Evilpants keeps coming back after each ganking.
It's hard to hide frustration and disappointment when it happens and it's a credit to the original poster if they're thinking of toning it down so the DM can have fun too. If someone else in the group is better at handling derailments and surprised, suggest they run an adventure or two so the previous DM can see how they handle a similar situation. I found that works pretty well in our group, where most of us take turns DMing.
Gormashnit also brings up a good point about the DM always losing. DnD isn't a video game, one side isn't supposed to "beat" the other. But, it's easy to get into that sort of mindset during combat encounters. Reminding myself that I'm not supposed to murder the party helps!
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