At my last gaming session, my pixie was trying to talk a wolf that had been mounted by orcs into becoming a mount for the party's fighter, who had spent the entire encounter trying to do so. But two major problems emerged: 1) the DM decided that the wolf couldn't communicate to me because it wasn't intelligent enough to understand language, and 2) the DM allowed one of the power-gamers, who had become bored, to run up and kill the wolf after about five minutes of role-play.
I understand that Speak with Beasts is up to interpretation, and I intend to argue to him that the pixies of English fairy tales were able to fully communicate with beasts and that if a druid can asks questions with to a plant, my character should be able to understand the wolf. But more importantly - what the other player did was incredibly rude, and when I tried to talk with him later, he told me that he had been "role-playing his barbarian" and that he didn't think that the role-play was going to work.
I'm going to talk with the DM about this, and if he continues to let players intrude on the role-play of other players, I'm going to leave the group. What I want to ask is what you would reccomend, and how best to convince players to cooperate and help each other out, rather that having a few players simply try to fast-forward to the next battle.
What I'd recommend is getting both the DM and the Power-Gamer together. Be polite, but firm. Tell the DM and the Power-Gamer that you don't appreciate your enjoyment of the game being trampled on. Ask him if maybe they could find a balance.
If that's not possible, perhaps a house rule: "You [Power-Gamer] need to ask before you charge into combat, but you [You] need to ask before you go into long and extensive RP."
In a 3.5 game where I played a Knight (the character class), my Mounted Combat feat and maxed out Ride skill went to a complete waste. The DM would periodically include a monster in a battle that had a monstrous mount to ride on. One of the players at the table killed the mount every single time. He knew I wanted a mount, but would not allow the enemy the advantage of riding its mount.
In other situations, we have talked to an enemy for 5-15 minutes, trying a avoid battle, when someone at the table gets bored and suddenly fires off an attack to begin the fight.
You will never find a shortage of these types of players. Maybe talking to the DM will help. I suggest that you start a conversation at the table when everyone is there to find out what kind of a game each person wants. If you make your desire clear (sometimes we kill, sometimes we talk), then even a halfway adult person should be able to respect that. Maybe you'll all find out something about the people at the table.
Depends really. In that situation, it really didn't seem to be going anywhere. You were talking to the Wolf, the fighter was talking to the wolf, it didn't understand. The way it sounded, naither the DM nor the player felt that the encounter was going to evolve from that, hence the removal of the object of desire. Perhaps it was the only way for things to evolve from that viewpoint as the fighter mightn' have a special affinity for it to start with.
What you should do is have a word with your DM out of session to clarify what a fairy means to both of you so that if such a situation crops up again, it's clear what can and can't be expected. Since you both have different opinons of what fairys are, it's best resolved to make sure the confusion and offending doesn't happen again.
I understand that Speak with Beasts is up to interpretation, and I intend to argue to him that the pixies of English fairy tales were able to fully communicate with beasts and that if a druid can asks questions with to a plant, my character should be able to understand the wolf.
This depends on how you were approaching the wolf. Divination spells (and that's basically what these kinds of spells/abilities are) are notoriously difficult to balance. One of the ways that the "speak with..." types have been dealt with is to constrain the subjects of inquiry to subjects that would be interesting to the creature in question. So, if you were talking with a plant, the plant may have a lot to say about the high winds, or how great the rain was, or how it doesn't like the things that keep hitting it with metal objects. The wolf also isn't going to know a whole lot beyond hunting and taking orders, and if you are trying to reason with the beast as if it is a person, it's likely going to think you are weak and take the opportunity to vie for alpha status.
Now, a nature check should give you the chance to figure this stuff out (as the breadth of knowledge is being wholely determined by the DM, and you are not a mindreader). But, lots of times, these tricks just don't seem to work. But when they do, ho boy, you might have just broken the campaign.
But more importantly - what the other player did was incredibly rude, and when I tried to talk with him later, he told me that he had been "role-playing his barbarian" and that he didn't think that the role-play was going to work.
Absolutely. The "I'm just role-playing my barbarian (which I think is a synonym for psychopath)" is complete bovine excrement, and needs to be called out. The player has complete control over what his character thinks, believes, and how he acts. He has specifically chosen to play a character that tramples over the efforts of other players. That has to stop.
Besides, now your pixie is apparently adventuring with a person who is prone to killing creatures he is having a dialog with for no apparent reason. If you (and the fighter) were to be true to your characters, does the barbarian player think his character would still be welcome in the party?
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way. Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken. Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken. King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong. Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading. Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered. Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square. Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong. Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked. Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic. Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation. Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses. Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent. Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof. Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it. Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways. Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful. The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken. Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered. Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5. Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong. Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken. Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken. Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
@Wystenv - I was making progress with the DM, but the problem was that he wasn't translating it to me, the player, in English. I would ask "How were you treated by the Orcs riding you? Were you beaten?", he'd say that the wolf seemed angry and afraid, then I'd say "If you come with us, you'll be treated as an equal, fed, etc.", to which he'd say "He no longer seems afraid but still somewhat angry." As I interpret Speak with Beasts, I should be able to at least get simple answers back such as "we weren't fed, we were whipped", etc.
I cut him loose and he didn't do anything, he was calm when I fed him, and that's when the Barbarian said (and I quote) "Actually, I'm going to jump in and kill it." So there was no reason to assume role-play wasn't working.
@Crowscape - Well, in terms of dealing with the wolf, a) I had already beaten it and knocked it out, so I had already achieved alpha status. I even said "if you're not interested, you can walk away", as a very deliberate nod to the DM to say "if you don't want the fighter to have a mount, the wolf can leave."
And yes, I've seen people leave groups (and I'm considering it myself) because other players are allowed to intrude on other players role-play. So I completely agree.
@mellored - Yes, the wolf didn't have to let anyone ride it - but again, I gave it the option to walk away.
And the barbarian is trained in nature. I mentioned "hey, if anybody has nature you can make a check to help tame it." So yes, he could've been part of the conversation, but chose to interrupt instead.
@Wystenv - I was making progress with the DM, but the problem was that he wasn't translating it to me, the player, in English. I would ask "How were you treated by the Orcs riding you? Were you beaten?", he'd say that the wolf seemed angry and afraid, then I'd say "If you come with us, you'll be treated as an equal, fed, etc.", to which he'd say "He no longer seems afraid but still somewhat angry." As I interpret Speak with Beasts, I should be able to at least get simple answers back such as "we weren't fed, we were whipped", etc.
I cut him loose and he didn't do anything, he was calm when I fed him, and that's when the Barbarian said (and I quote) "Actually, I'm going to jump in and kill it." So there was no reason to assume role-play wasn't working.
@Crowscape - Well, in terms of dealing with the wolf, a) I had already beaten it and knocked it out, so I had already achieved alpha status. I even said "if you're not interested, you can walk away", as a very deliberate nod to the DM to say "if you don't want the fighter to have a mount, the wolf can leave."
And yes, I've seen people leave groups (and I'm considering it myself) because other players are allowed to intrude on other players role-play. So I completely agree.
@mellored - Yes, the wolf didn't have to let anyone ride it - but again, I gave it the option to walk away.
And the barbarian is trained in nature. I mentioned "hey, if anybody has nature you can make a check to help tame it." So yes, he could've been part of the conversation, but chose to interrupt instead.
Ahhhh, alright, that clarification is extremely helpful. Changes a lot of things.
Depends really, a incharacter problem deserves a incharacter responce. If he's going to act like a buffon in character, then he is one. Afterall, what is a man if he can't control his axe? A beast one says? Sounds like you need to "Jump in and kill it" sometime. Or at least get a frosty reception in future. I remembered a simlar situation with the frenzied bezerker, that my character treated him almost as a mere animal. If he hadn't of died or of been of scentific importence to him, I likely would have disposed of him much sooner considering his high mortalty rate.
I do believe you might want a word with your DM to remind the players that how they act will ultimately influence ones opinon on them. 5 minutes isn't long considering the progress made, and definately not justifcation for going "hulk smash" without side effect.
Jumping in an killing it may very well be the barbarians way of RPing. I know i have a character like that. Other's have to convince him not to kill things fairly regularly. Sometimes he does anyway (espcially if he was already fighting it). It's part of the RP, not interupting it.
That said, it still might not be the group for you. Only advice i can give is to talk about it before you make a decision.
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way. Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken. Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken. King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong. Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading. Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered. Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square. Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong. Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked. Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic. Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation. Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses. Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent. Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof. Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it. Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways. Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful. The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken. Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered. Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5. Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong. Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken. Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken. Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
I don't know if the player of the barbarian was innocent or guilty of being an ass-hat, but:
I don't play with, or DM for, player s that go out of their way to mess with other players.
Roleplay is never a shield for asshattery! Never.
For example, a thief pc steals gold from a shopkeeper...and the pc Paladin sees it! oh no! What will happen?
Example of player being an ass-hat and pretending it is roleplay: "My Paladin cuts off the thieves hands! he broke the Law!"
Example of player adjusting to the realities of a social game called dnd: "My Paladin verbally reprimands the thief", and pays the shopkeeper the gold that was stolen, using the paladins own personal gold. He then tries to be a good example to the thief, and may not bail him out if his thievery is targetted at the innocent.
In my games I try to address likely character conflicts early, by asking the players to be cool with each others roleplay, and not be ass-hats. Usually works.
