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1 year ago ::
Jan 27, 2012 - 9:07PM
#141
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Date Joined:
Sep 19, 2011
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I'm glad vancian magic is coming back. I really don't see what all the fuss is over having perfectly balanced classes is. As long aseveryone gets their moment to shine and do what their class does best who cares. Its a cooperative game for the most part, everyone working as a team. I think the design team is in the right track.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 27, 2012 - 9:07PM
#142
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Date Joined:
Aug 30, 2007
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thay are At-Will in Pathfinder so that might be what he's thinking of, but still really weak (about 1d3 damage is the best you could hope for, unless you are using the Word Magic system then it's about 1d4)
They also toss wizards some X/day that do about 1d6+ 1/2 your level. Not much but it's a handy fall back when the big guns run out.
What they are talking about kind of reminds me of the Reserve Feats that 3.5 brought in near the end. As long as I had a Fire spell in memory I could toss a Fireblast around all day long, with it's power being based on the highest level Fire Spell I had memorized.
Ah, that might explain it. I'm not familiar with Pathfinder, but in 3e they used slots and did like 1d3 damage or neat little effects. In 2e they did 1 damage and depending on which system you used, either you cast a level 1 cantrip spell that allowed you to use an unlimited number of cantrips for the next hour, or if you were using the Spells & Magic spell point system you could cast individual cantrip effects for 1 point each (for a sense of scale, a 1st level spell was 4 points).
I'm not a fan of the idea of magic feats for at-wills either. At-will magic should already be built into the system, otherwise it just becomes a feat tax. Reserve feats were more understandable because they were added into the system after the fact. Designing it the same way from the start just sounds bad.
Owner and Proprietor of the House of Trolls.
God of ownership and possession.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 27, 2012 - 9:10PM
#143
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Date Joined:
Aug 30, 2007
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I demand we bring back real Vancian magic.
Wizards can cast four spells and can't memorize them while travelling.
( Incidentally, if wizards can take feats to get at-wills, does that mean fighters can take feats to get awesomely powerful dailies? I have my doubts. )
I think they mentioned fighters trading in a feat or a damage bonus or something to gain Brute Strike. However, they didn't mention if Brute Strike was a daily or built on some other mechanic. It was a daily in 4e, but then again they also said that 4e gave vancian powers to all classes and now the casters were taking them back, so I wouldn't hold out hope for it.
Owner and Proprietor of the House of Trolls.
God of ownership and possession.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 27, 2012 - 9:12PM
#144
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Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2012
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I'm glad vancian magic is coming back. I really don't see what all the fuss is over having perfectly balanced classes is. As long aseveryone gets their moment to shine and do what their class does best who cares. Its a cooperative game for the most part, everyone working as a team. I think the design team is in the right track.
Ok, going by that logic, what is the harm in balancing the classes anyway? The people who want balance will be satisfied, and you won't care either way because you'll get your shine time.
In fact, using this logic, lets have Fighters capable of doing everything a Wizard can do... but better. I'd like to see that. Well, not really, but I'd find it better than Wizards returning to their seat of power because at least then it'd be a change of pace.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 27, 2012 - 9:16PM
#145
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Date Joined:
Jan 13, 2008
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Definitely agreed on the at-wills. Every Wizard ever would take that feat. It's like Power Attack on a Barbarian in 3.x. They may of well have built it into the class.
Feats to upgrade or alter the at will attack would be very cool. Perhaps all casters start with a "generic magic damage" ability that can be given elemental attributes, a mild splash/chain/line effect or whatever (kindof along the lines of how eldritch blasts leveled up back in the day).
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1 year ago ::
Jan 27, 2012 - 9:20PM
#146
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In fact, using this logic, lets have Fighters capable of doing everything a Wizard can do... but better. I'd like to see that. Well, not really, but I'd find it better than Wizards returning to their seat of power because at least then it'd be a change of pace.
It's funny how that's always how it goes. The argument is always "It's fine that some classes can do what others do but more and better. See wizards..."
No screw that.
Wizards can throw fireballs that do a bit of damage but not as much as fighters. Meanwhile fighters can also pick locks, leap higher then mortal men, rule kingdoms, lead armies, and unite the world while the wizard is still rubbing bat poop in his lonely tower. What, Knock spell? Please, my definition of magic doesn't allow it to work that way.
It'd be funny to see how fast people leap for balance in the face of such.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 27, 2012 - 9:25PM
#147
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A few points.
4e did not end vancian casting. It merely extended the problem/ability to all classes.
dailies have definite benefits in allowing/forcing players to ration resources. It also prevents/allows the player from/to just casting the same spell round after round, a distinctly dull result.
There are other systems that can have the same effect. Rock-paper-scissor or some variation of it makes mindlessly using the same spell constantly a losing strategy. But we need to need to look at what we will replace vancian with before we reject vancian. [Note for example here that mana points have much the same effect as a vancian system. You have to ration your spells, and the game must have some version of the 15 minute work day].
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1 year ago ::
Jan 27, 2012 - 9:35PM
#148
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Date Joined:
Sep 14, 2008
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Not too pleased, although I guess if it doesn't get too out of hand it won't be too terrible...
Though I have to wonder, if 4th edition fans will feel the same way about 5th edition that 3rd edition fans feel about 4th.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 27, 2012 - 9:58PM
#149
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Date Joined:
Apr 14, 2004
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Vancian casting bad!  I'm one sad panda... I know I pine for the days of having my fighter watch a series of explosions, seeing every monster burned to death by the wizard and then everyone climb into the rope trick to do it all over again in 8 hours...
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1 year ago ::
Jan 27, 2012 - 10:08PM
#150
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Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2012
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Vancian casting bad! I'm one sad panda...
I know I pine for the days of having my fighter watch a series of explosions, seeing every monster burned to death by the wizard and then everyone climb into the rope trick to do it all over again in 8 hours...
Wait wait wait, hold on a second... your Wizard let you in the Rope Trick? My Wizard would get in with the Rogue and leave the rest of us to die.
Or he'd Polymorph. Oh, how I so miss playing a melee class with a Wizard that can Polymorph. Nothing makes you feel like you're an equal member of a team like managing to get a strike in before the Wizard can Polymorph the encounter away.
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