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Switch to Forum Live View DPR King Candidates 3.0
10 months ago  ::  Aug 22, 2012 - 11:40AM #431
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,482

Aug 22, 2012 -- 11:21AM, JQuacker wrote:

Distant Vengeance specifically says "All ranged basic attacks."


There's a specific cheeze tag for that.

Though i agree with alcestis.

guides Show
my builds Show

F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones.  Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 04, 2012 - 10:07PM #432
Odyssyus
Date Joined: Dec 28, 2010
Posts: 156
Hello I have a new version of my old build (last one had a lot of holes in it). 
Here are the things this build assumes that it's fay beast companion is always adjacent to the target, lasting frost applies to first hit and that it can charge each turn so here is the build i call him zeus (yes someone did just make a thor).
Spoiler: Show
 

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Thyrn, level 12
Gnoll, Ranger (Scout), Lyrandar Wind-Rider
Ranger Wilderness Knacks Option: Ambush Expertise (Ranger)
Ranger Wilderness Knacks Option: Beast Empathy (Ranger)
Two-Weapon Style Option: Flashing Blade Mastery
Level 4 Wilderness Knack Option: Watchful Rest (Ranger)
Level 8 Wilderness Knack Option: Wilderness Tracker (Ranger)
Associate: Trained Young Owlbear
Luskan (Luskan Benefit)
Theme: Fey Beast Tamer

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 14, CON 20, DEX 22, INT 11, WIS 11, CHA 9

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 13, CON 15, DEX 17, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 8


AC: 27 Fort: 24 Ref: 25 Will: 18
HP: 87 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 21

TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +16, Endurance +15, Nature +11, Stealth +17, Thievery +17

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +6, Athletics +7, Bluff +5, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +6, Heal +6, History +6, Insight +6, Intimidate +7, Perception +8, Religion +6, Streetwise +5

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Gnoll Racial Power: Ferocious Charge
Ranger Utility: Aspect of the Charging Ram
Ranger Utility: Aspect of the Lurking Spider
Ranger Attack: Dual Weapon Attack
Multiple Class Attack: Power Strike
Ranger Utility: Aspect of the Pack Wolf
Ranger Utility 2: Invigorating Stride
Ranger Utility 5: Reactive Shift
Ranger Utility 6: Healing Lore
Endurance Utility 10: Reactive Surge
Lyrandar Wind-Rider Attack 11: Wind Burst
Lyrandar Wind-Rider Utility 12: Zephyr Wings

FEATS
Level 1: Spiked Chain Training
Level 2: Mark of Storm
Level 4: Light Blade Expertise
Level 6: Nimble Blade
Level 8: Powerful Charge
Level 10: Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 11: Lightning Soul
Level 12: Lasting Frost

ITEMS
Lightning Spiked chain +3 x1
Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier) x1
Lancing Gloves x1
Horned Helm (heroic tier) x1
Frozen Whetstone (heroic tier)
Griffon
Eberron Shard of Lightning (heroic tier)
Badge of the Berserker +2 x1
Magic Hide Armor +2 x1
====== End ======


So here is the attack break down
Spoiler: Show
Melee basic attack
bonus to hit
+6 dex mod
+6 half level
+3 weapon proficiency 
+3 weapon enchantment
+2 light blade expertise
+2 combat advantage
+1 nimble blade
+1 flashing blade
+1 charge bonus
+1 paragon path
total 26 vs AC chance to hit normally .9 chance to crit .05 chance to miss .05
and now for the damage
+6 dex mod
+3 weapon enchantment
+2 iron armbands of power
+1 two weapon fighting
+2 pack attack
+5 con mod from pargon path
+3 from lurking spider stance
+2 light blade expertise
+3 lightning soul
+5 lasting frost
+2 powerful charge
+2 lancing gloves
+2 frozen whetstone
+1 dragon shard
+2d4 weapon damage
+1d6 horned helm
+3d6 on a crit
damage calculations 2d4, 1d6+37 average damage 45.5 X chance to hit normally = 40.95 damage crit damage 61.5 X chance to crit .05 = 3.075 DPR = 44.025.
Now for dual weapon attack
 bonus to hit 
+6 dex mod
+6 half level
+3 weapon proficiency 
+3 weapon enchantment
+2 light blade expertise
+2 combat advantage
+1 nimble blade
+1 flashing blade
+1 paragon path
total 25  vs AC chance to hit normal normally .9 chance to crit .05 but since you cant use dual weapon attack unless you hit with your melee basic attack you have to X these by your chance to hit with the melee basic attack so .9 X .95 = .855 and .05 X .95 = .0475
now for damage
 +6 dex mod
+3 weapon enchantment
+2 iron armbands of power
+1 two weapon fighting
+2 pack attack 
+5 con mod from pargon path
+3 from lurking spider stance
+2 light blade expertise
+3 lightning soul
+5 lasting frost
+2 improved dual weapon attack
+2 lancing gloves
+2 frozen whetstone
+1 dragon shard
+2d4 weapon damage
+3d6 on a crit
damage calculations 2d4+37 average damage 42 X .855 =35.91 crit damage 2.63 DPR = 38.54
now for the griffons claw attacks
bonus to hit
12 + 2 from combat advantage = 14 vs AC will hit on 12 but miss on 11 so 11 times .05 = .55  which means .4 chance to hit normally and .05 chance to crit
damage 2d6+10 plus 2 from fey beasts aura = 2d6+12
damage calculations 2d6+12 average damage 19 X .4 = 7.6 crit damage 24 X .05 = 1.2 DPR = 8.8 the griffon makes this attack twice so 17.6


Final calculations melee basic attack 44.025 + dual weapon attack 38.54 + griffons two claw attacks 17.6 = 100.165 DPR or .83 KPR
hope your still with me and if you see any problems with this build just let me now thanks.

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8 months ago  ::  Oct 07, 2012 - 5:51PM #433
erachima
Date Joined: Sep 4, 2010
Posts: 7,661
I've made a level 12 Sorcerer with 1.4 mean KPR.

Maybe you'll believe me now that your chart severely overrates multi-target damage?
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 23, 2012 - 1:31PM #434
kalidrev
Date Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 17
Hey all,

I'm playing the following character, but am unsure how to calculate his KPR.  Any help would be massively appreciated.  I'm not sure how to handle the choice on whether to use his at-will single-target attack, or at-will area-burst 1 attack and how/if that would effect his KPR.

Malakai Show


NOTE: Built with 25 point buy and gained a free "expertise" feat at lvl 5 as part of the PbP he's in.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Malakai, level 5
Tiefling, Sorcerer (Elementalist)
Elemental Specialty Option: Fire Elementalist
Fire in Your Veins (+2 to Arcana)
Theme: Infernal Prince
 
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 8, CON 19, DEX 10, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 21
 
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 8, CON 16, DEX 10, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 18
 
 
AC: 17 Fort: 17 Ref: 13 Will: 20
HP: 51 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 12
 
TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +9, Bluff +16, Endurance +11, Intimidate +12
 
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +2, Athletics +1, Diplomacy +9, Dungeoneering +2, Heal +2, History +2, Insight +2, Nature +2, Perception +2, Religion +2, Stealth +4, Streetwise +7, Thievery +2
 
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Infernal Prince Attack: Hellfire Heart
Sorcerer Attack: Elemental Bolt
Sorcerer Attack: Ignition
Sorcerer Attack: Elemental Escalation (Fire)
Feat Utility: Diabolic Transformation
Sorcerer Utility 2: Shield of Flames
 
FEATS
Level 1: Hellfire Blood
Level 2: Superior Implement Training (Incendiary dagger)
Level 4: Diabolic Soul
Level 5: War Wizard's Expertise
 
ITEMS
Amulet of Protection +1 x1
Chromatic Robe Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) +1 x1
Khyber Shard of the Fiery Depth (heroic tier)
Crimson Determination (heroic tier)
Flame Bracers (heroic tier)
Challenge-Seeking Incendiary dagger +2 x1
====== End ======



My inclination would be to use my two uses of Elemental Escalation on his AoE attack... but based on how I've seen AoE's treated here, not sure if it would be better to use it with his Single Target power for calculating KPR. 
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 17, 2012 - 8:20AM #435
borg285
Date Joined: Jan 23, 2008
Posts: 2,868
I hereby summon myself from the dead!

Looks like I'll be using KPR for D&D next: community.wizards.com/dndnext/blog/2012/...

Over christmas break I'll finally have time to update this thread.  I'm excited to read up on what's come out since my long hiatus.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for? Show

You're fired          : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR
Fair Striker          : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR
Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR
Nerfbat please     : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR
It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR

DPR?  KPR?  KP4R?  Bless you Show

DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit
KPR = Kills Per Round.  1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage
       = DPR/(8*level+24)
KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds.  How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 17, 2012 - 8:28AM #436
borg285
Date Joined: Jan 23, 2008
Posts: 2,868
And I was able to finally edit my first post in the DPR 2.0 thread, so now lurkers know to come to this thread.  WAHOO!!!
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for? Show

You're fired          : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR
Fair Striker          : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR
Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR
Nerfbat please     : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR
It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR

DPR?  KPR?  KP4R?  Bless you Show

DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit
KPR = Kills Per Round.  1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage
       = DPR/(8*level+24)
KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds.  How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
Quick Reply
Cancel
5 months ago  ::  Dec 24, 2012 - 9:03AM #437
borg285
Date Joined: Jan 23, 2008
Posts: 2,868

Oct 23, 2012 -- 1:31PM, kalidrev wrote:

Hey all,

I'm playing the following character, but am unsure how to calculate his KPR.  Any help would be massively appreciated.  I'm not sure how to handle the choice on whether to use his at-will single-target attack, or at-will area-burst 1 attack and how/if that would effect his KPR.

Malakai Show



NOTE: Built with 25 point buy and gained a free "expertise" feat at lvl 5 as part of the PbP he's in.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Malakai, level 5
Tiefling, Sorcerer (Elementalist)
Elemental Specialty Option: Fire Elementalist
Fire in Your Veins (+2 to Arcana)
Theme: Infernal Prince
 
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 8, CON 19, DEX 10, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 21
 
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 8, CON 16, DEX 10, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 18
 
 
AC: 17 Fort: 17 Ref: 13 Will: 20
HP: 51 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 12
 
TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +9, Bluff +16, Endurance +11, Intimidate +12
 
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +2, Athletics +1, Diplomacy +9, Dungeoneering +2, Heal +2, History +2, Insight +2, Nature +2, Perception +2, Religion +2, Stealth +4, Streetwise +7, Thievery +2
 
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Infernal Prince Attack: Hellfire Heart
Sorcerer Attack: Elemental Bolt
Sorcerer Attack: Ignition
Sorcerer Attack: Elemental Escalation (Fire)
Feat Utility: Diabolic Transformation
Sorcerer Utility 2: Shield of Flames
 
FEATS
Level 1: Hellfire Blood
Level 2: Superior Implement Training (Incendiary dagger)
Level 4: Diabolic Soul
Level 5: War Wizard's Expertise
 
ITEMS
Amulet of Protection +1 x1
Chromatic Robe Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) +1 x1
Khyber Shard of the Fiery Depth (heroic tier)
Crimson Determination (heroic tier)
Flame Bracers (heroic tier)
Challenge-Seeking Incendiary dagger +2 x1
====== End ======



My inclination would be to use my two uses of Elemental Escalation on his AoE attack... but based on how I've seen AoE's treated here, not sure if it would be better to use it with his Single Target power for calculating KPR. 



Free feats aren't allowed on this compendium. But most builds stat themselves out at level 6, so that gives you an extra +1 to hit, a feat, and a utility that often doesn't matter
Feel free to calculate the single target KPR, and the per target KPR of your area attack seperatly.  I've listed both values as seperate entries for the same build.   
I put a "(3x3)" next to your KPR value so lurkers can easily spot the fact that all creatures in the area attack suffer this KPR.   

DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for? Show

You're fired          : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR
Fair Striker          : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR
Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR
Nerfbat please     : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR
It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR

DPR?  KPR?  KP4R?  Bless you Show

DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit
KPR = Kills Per Round.  1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage
       = DPR/(8*level+24)
KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds.  How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 24, 2012 - 9:44AM #438
borg285
Date Joined: Jan 23, 2008
Posts: 2,868

Thread updated.  I've collected the last 3 builds here from the DPR Kings 2.0 thread.  If you want to comment on them replying there may be the best way to get their attention.

Regarding the Loud Pixie from Erchima, and his complaint about the area attack conversion to single target KPR; I must say his build is absolutly amazing.  Having a friendly at-will 7x7 area attack is superb.  I love the fact that he statted out his attack sequence.  Having 1.8 KPR on round 2 just blows me away.  He says that we overrate area attack.  I did this intentionally.  I want more area attack builds here.  We simply don't have enough.  This thread makes a significant contribution to optimized builds in real play.  I feel the area attack region is mostly unexplored, partly due to the idea that it doesn't conform to the DPR expectations we are used to.  

I'd put his build in another entry where I quote just the per target KPR with the "(7x7)" modifier but I didn't see that he calculated that explicitly.

.83 KPR Thyrn(12), by Odyssyus(Ch, Fr, Mnt, Fey)

.4 KPR Halfling Calvalry(11), by Jay_Ibero_911 (Fey, Mnt, LFR)

0.655 KPR Lone Wolf(dual Gouge)(30), by Black_Knight999(Fr, Solo)

0.62 KPR Razorclaw Scout Shocktrooper(16) , Mengu74 (Ch Fey Frst)

.89 KPR(very unorhodox) Human Ranger (Beastmaster)|Sentinel(1), by SpikedMarkovChain(Fey)

1.4 KPR Loud Pixie(12), by erachima()

70.45 DPR Frostbow of Sehanine(24), by RtrnofdMax(Fr)

34.53 DPR Pixie Thief(6), by RX-75()

52.03 DPR Fighter|Ranger(6), by RX-75(Mnt)

DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for? Show

You're fired          : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR
Fair Striker          : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR
Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR
Nerfbat please     : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR
It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR

DPR?  KPR?  KP4R?  Bless you Show

DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit
KPR = Kills Per Round.  1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage
       = DPR/(8*level+24)
KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds.  How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
Quick Reply
Cancel
5 months ago  ::  Dec 24, 2012 - 10:09AM #439
borg285
Date Joined: Jan 23, 2008
Posts: 2,868
I don't want to scare you, but I'd like to emphasize one reason I made the google doc is so that others could take up the cause in my stead.  On the HTML tab, I've prepared the cells to generate the sblocks needed for posting.  I'd like that this google doc be the de-facto source for builds.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for? Show

You're fired          : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR
Fair Striker          : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR
Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR
Nerfbat please     : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR
It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR

DPR?  KPR?  KP4R?  Bless you Show

DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit
KPR = Kills Per Round.  1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage
       = DPR/(8*level+24)
KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds.  How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
Quick Reply
Cancel
5 months ago  ::  Jan 03, 2013 - 12:52PM #440
Bohrdumb
Date Joined: Mar 31, 2010
Posts: 1,989
My Blackquard|Exe\Rog:

Spoiler: Show

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Blexecutioner, level 1
Human, Paladin (Blackguard)/Assassin (Executioner)
Vice: Vice of Fury
Hybrid Paladin (Blackguard) Option: Hybrid Blackguard Fortitude
Hybrid Assassin (Executioner) Option: Hybrid Executioner Fortitude
Human Power Selection Option: Heroic Effort
 
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 13, DEX 13, INT 8, WIS 10, CHA 20
 
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 13, DEX 13, INT 8, WIS 10, CHA 18
 
 
AC: 13 Fort: 14 Ref: 12 Will: 16
HP: 26 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 6
 
TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +6, Athletics +5, Endurance +6, Perception +5, Thievery +6
 
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana –1, Bluff +5, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +0, Heal +0, History –1, Insight +0, Intimidate +5, Nature +0, Religion –1, Stealth +1, Streetwise +5
 
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Human Racial Power: Heroic Effort
Paladin Attack: Dread Smite
: Swap Daily For Poison Recipe
Paladin Attack 1: Virtuous Strike
 
FEATS
Level 1: Cunning Stalker
Level 1: Sneak of Shadows
 
ITEMS
Carrion Crawler Brain Juice
Rapier x1
Leather Armor x1
====== End ======


Math Time?
Spoiler: Show

Basic At-Will is Virtuous Strike
with CA and CH I'm +10 v AC for 2d8+12 for 21 x .8 = 16.80.

One of those attacks picks up Sneak Attack for an additional 7 dmg which is 28 x .8 = 22.40

And then one of them would receive the Dread Smite bonus which is 7 dmg and ongoing 5. I'm going to add a flat 12 and assume a save on the first round to keep the math simple cus frankly I suck at math.

33 x .8 = 26.40

26.40 + 22.40 + 16.80(3) = 99.2/5 = 19.84. 19.84/32 = .62KPR

Now I still have my Heroic Effort to use, but I'm not sure how to factor it in mathmatically? If I assume I use it on my biggest attack, my numbers look thus:

33 + 22.40 + 16.80(3) = 21.16 or .661KPR
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