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 Dungeons & Dra.. 4e Character Optim.. DPR King Candidates 3.0
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 1 year ago  ::  Jan 27, 2012 - 1:33PM #71 borg285 Date Joined: Jan 23, 2008 Posts: 2,868 How about this for AoE and Monks:  If you hit multiple targets you can take fractional KPR for your primary target, but all secondary targets you can only count them if you've killed them, all excess damage to secondary targets go to the next set of secondary targets.5 KPR to primary.25 KPR to 3x secondary targetsRound 1 Monster 1 is bloodied Monster 2-4 are 1/4th down KP1R = .5 Round 2 Monster 1 is dead Monster 2-4 are bloodied KP2R = 1  Round 3 Monster 1a is bloodied Monster 2-4 are at quarter HP KP3R = 1.5 Round 4  Monster 1a is dead Monster 2-4 are dead KP4R = 5 Round 5 Monster 1b is bloodied Monster 2a-4a are 1/4th down KP5R = 5.5  If you were using encounter powers you are already doing a round by round breakdownIf you are doing simple at-will calculations you have to seperate it into primary KPR (fractional) and secondary KPNR = n attacks * floor(KPNR)In this case5*.5 + 3*floor(1.25)2.5+3*1 = 5.5 KP5R DPR King Candidates 3.0How much damage should I shoot for? Show You're fired          : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPRFair Striker          : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPRHighly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPRNerfbat please     : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPRIt's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPRDPR?  KPR?  KP4R?  Bless you Show DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hitKPR = Kills Per Round.  1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage       = DPR/(8*level+24)KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds.  How many standards can you kill in N rounds? Quick Reply Cancel Quote message in reply? 1 year ago  ::  Jan 27, 2012 - 2:03PM #72 onecrazymojo Date Joined: Feb 13, 2006 Posts: 917 I like it! Good compromise. Quick Reply Cancel Quote message in reply? 1 year ago  ::  Jan 27, 2012 - 2:31PM #73 borg285 Date Joined: Jan 23, 2008 Posts: 2,868 One problem I see with it is that we now have an arbitrary threshold where your secondary KPR will give you a huge boost to KP5Rthat arbitrary threshold for KP5R is .2.  Once you hit that value as secondary targets you can kill your secondary targets after 5 rounds but wouldn't do the same for KP4R, which may/may not be wanted.Since we are allowing primary targets to have fractionaly KPR because of variance in monster HP, allies contribution... why would this not also be the case for secondary targets.  The only reason I can see for favoring primary over secondary is that killing the BBEG is more important than killing his bodyguards.  How much is bias.  DPR King Candidates 3.0How much damage should I shoot for? Show You're fired          : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPRFair Striker          : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPRHighly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPRNerfbat please     : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPRIt's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPRDPR?  KPR?  KP4R?  Bless you Show DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hitKPR = Kills Per Round.  1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage       = DPR/(8*level+24)KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds.  How many standards can you kill in N rounds? Quick Reply Cancel Quote message in reply? 1 year ago  ::  Jan 27, 2012 - 3:15PM #74 onecrazymojo Date Joined: Feb 13, 2006 Posts: 917 Mm. What if we allowed .5 fractions for secondary targets?Personally, I liked the first idea specifically because it did have aggregated bursts. That might be because in my experience our groups tend to focus fire, so save for the one guy doing AOE, they won't take any damage unless the primary target is dead. I suppose in less organized groups, focus fire might not exist....but I kind of assumed along with our optimal strikers and optimal monster decisions that they would also have an optimal party making optimal choices. Quick Reply Cancel Quote message in reply? 1 year ago  ::  Jan 27, 2012 - 3:20PM #75 borg285 Date Joined: Jan 23, 2008 Posts: 2,868 Jan 27, 2012 -- 3:15PM, onecrazymojo wrote:Mm. What if we allowed .5 fractions for secondary targets? Personally, I liked the first idea specifically because it did have aggregated bursts. That might be because in my experience our groups tend to focus fire, so save for the one guy doing AOE, they won't take any damage unless the primary target is dead. I suppose in less organized groups, focus fire might not exist....but I kind of assumed along with our optimal strikers and optimal monster decisions that they would also have an optimal party making optimal choices.Every group I've played in the tactic is "Well he's attacking that guy so I'll attack that other dude."  5 rounds later all baddies are still there and they all look like minions.  Then the AoE guy looks realy nice. DPR King Candidates 3.0How much damage should I shoot for? Show You're fired          : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPRFair Striker          : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPRHighly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPRNerfbat please     : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPRIt's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPRDPR?  KPR?  KP4R?  Bless you Show DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hitKPR = Kills Per Round.  1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage       = DPR/(8*level+24)KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds.  How many standards can you kill in N rounds? Quick Reply Cancel Quote message in reply? 1 year ago  ::  Jan 27, 2012 - 3:28PM #76 onecrazymojo Date Joined: Feb 13, 2006 Posts: 917 Haha. Your healer must get frustrated keeping your table alive. I know I would :sHrm. The thing I want to discourage cropping up as dpr kings is builds using dual strike or throw and stab. Pure total damage dealt they easily compete or beat twinstrike, but we know that isn't the case. They don't even come close precisely because the damage is spread out and not focused. Quick Reply Cancel Quote message in reply? 1 year ago  ::  Jan 27, 2012 - 3:38PM #77 borg285 Date Joined: Jan 23, 2008 Posts: 2,868 I fear we may be wrongly preaching Single target > multi-target.A 5 round combat = a 5 round combat.Total rounds being equal, the spreading out damage has only 2 negative concequences: team hero takes more damage, team hero has a greater chance of having bad conditions from still-alive monsters.  And when has DPR king cared about survivability? DPR King Candidates 3.0How much damage should I shoot for? Show You're fired          : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPRFair Striker          : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPRHighly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPRNerfbat please     : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPRIt's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPRDPR?  KPR?  KP4R?  Bless you Show DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hitKPR = Kills Per Round.  1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage       = DPR/(8*level+24)KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds.  How many standards can you kill in N rounds? Quick Reply Cancel Quote message in reply? 1 year ago  ::  Jan 27, 2012 - 3:43PM #78 onecrazymojo Date Joined: Feb 13, 2006 Posts: 917 True. But, part of the use of the thread is to help /strikers/ develop strong builds they can use. Some of that might only be neat tricks or ideas, some genuine and viable builds, and some on the bell curve might have no use on the table at all. But if pure damage is all we care about, then ye....controllers will be our new kings. Why fight and scheme to optimize or generate multi-attacks when you can just aoe and double or triple your output, no thought required? Quick Reply Cancel Quote message in reply? 1 year ago  ::  Jan 27, 2012 - 3:50PM #79 mellored Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008 Posts: 19,463 ^ agree.  Damage is damage, and this is the damage thread.  Just assume you have 4 pacifict clerics keep yu going.That said, we still need to adjust, because there won't always be a seconday target, or one in range. guides Show my builds Show F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square. Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong. Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the powerPsilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly brokenUnnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken. Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones.  Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party. Quick Reply Cancel Quote message in reply? 1 year ago  ::  Jan 27, 2012 - 4:52PM #80 borg285 Date Joined: Jan 23, 2008 Posts: 2,868 I hate to encourage people to convert from AoE to be comparable to Single target strikers, but here I go.Either people will be ranked based on their primary target KPR and be satisfied with having a "3x3" next to their KPR value, or they will convert to single target KPR and put AoE as a tag.KPR conversion for AoE that doesn't target alliesnew KPR = single target KPR * (-0.0293 N^2 + 0.7016 N +0.3369)KPR conversion for AoE that does target alliesnew KPR = single target KPR * (-0.0321 N^2 + 0.4735 N + 0.7138)For AoE attacks that deal different damage to secondary targets you'll have to calculate those seperatly.  Doesn't target alliestotal KPR = Single target KPR + secondary KPR * (-0.0293 N^2 + 0.7016 N +0.3369 - 1)Does target alliestotal KPR = Single target KPR + secondary KPR * (-0.0321 N^2 + 0.4735 N + 0.7138 - 1)Attacks that have limited number of targetsEach secondary target is worth 1/2 of the last target. Monk with flurry of blows: Primary KPR + .5 * secondary KPR + .25 tertiary KPR...See this page for example calculations: docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqL... DPR King Candidates 3.0How much damage should I shoot for? Show You're fired          : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPRFair Striker          : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPRHighly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPRNerfbat please     : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPRIt's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPRDPR?  KPR?  KP4R?  Bless you Show DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hitKPR = Kills Per Round.  1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage       = DPR/(8*level+24)KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds.  How many standards can you kill in N rounds? Quick Reply Cancel Quote message in reply?
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 Dungeons & Dra.. 4e Character Optim.. DPR King Candidates 3.0
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