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1 year ago ::
Jan 26, 2012 - 10:24AM
#51
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Date Joined:
Feb 13, 2006
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Right, but that was also why I suggested marking which size of bad you can kill. Stating in one round you could take out a solo is both more accurate and more important for a nova than claiming your 1 round nova kills 4 standards. It also gives room for aoe to shine by showing they actually will kill 4 standards (but not that solo).
Speaking of aoe, I second heph's recomendtion for aoe and monster assumptions. I like the idea of there always being 4 'potential' targets of an undefined distance and bursts/blasts catching a predetermined number. A tofu encounter is no less strange than our tofu monster when attempting to model a builds potential output.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 26, 2012 - 10:24AM
#52
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Date Joined:
Jan 23, 2008
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What about fractional KPNR. If I can deal 50% of a monster's HP in 2 rounds I'got a .5 KP2R. We need to allow for sub-optimal strikers to have fractional KPNR so we can easily rank them. I know that a monster with 1 HP is just as deadly as a monster with full HP, but so much will get washed away with variances in monster level, allies doing area attacks, allies doing meager damage to our target, us being weakened...
I vote for having fractional KPNR and simply allowing overkill (I deal twice (8*level+24) in 1 round) equate to me having 2 KPR. It makes calculations much simpler.
DPR King Candidates 3.0How much damage should I shoot for?
Show
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR
Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR
Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR
Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR
It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
Show
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit
KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage
= DPR/(8*level+24)
KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
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1 year ago ::
Jan 26, 2012 - 10:31AM
#53
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Date Joined:
Feb 13, 2006
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I kind assumed we were going to have fractional numbers, or at least .5 values to represent bloodied. Rounding to whole dead monsters would seem odd, since it wouldn't account for the fact that you have left a bad low enough your defender or whoever just needs to whack at it.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 26, 2012 - 10:35AM
#54
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What about fractional KPNR. If I can deal 50% of a monster's HP in 2 rounds I'got a .5 KP2R. We need to allow for sub-optimal strikers to have fractional KPNR so we can easily rank them. I know that a monster with 1 HP is just as deadly as a monster with full HP, but so much will get washed away with variances in monster level, allies doing area attacks, allies doing meager damage to our target, us being weakened...
I vote for having fractional KPNR and simply allowing overkill (I deal twice (8*level+24) in 1 round) equate to me having 2 KPR. It makes calculations much simpler.
^ plus all that.
But yea, overkill, while it would be nice, makes things alot more complicated (thus discurage builds), and doesn't really make comparisons any more accurate.
guides
Show
my builds
Show
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 26, 2012 - 10:58AM
#55
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Blender is in.
guides
Show
my builds
Show
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 26, 2012 - 11:11AM
#56
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Date Joined:
Jan 23, 2008
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Hopefully tonight I'll be able to copy over 1 section (Level 12 should be easy). I'll also spend some time on what I'll with my 5 posts. I'm thinking
- Link to spreadsheet, Link to how to calculate DPR -> KPR, rules for candidates, other links you guys use frequently.
- Epic - Probably base it on KP4R
- Paragon
- Heroic
- Glossary and guids (What is a normal DPR/KPR, How to calculate DPR, What to do with double rolls...)
DPR King Candidates 3.0How much damage should I shoot for?
Show
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR
Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR
Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR
Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR
It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
Show
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit
KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage
= DPR/(8*level+24)
KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
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1 year ago ::
Jan 26, 2012 - 1:14PM
#57
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Date Joined:
Apr 27, 2009
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Hopefully tonight I'll be able to copy over 1 section (Level 12 should be easy). I'll also spend some time on what I'll with my 5 posts. I'm thinking
- Link to spreadsheet, Link to how to calculate DPR -> KPR, rules for candidates, other links you guys use frequently
I think the spreadsheet idea is brilliant. I almost suggested it, but kept my mouth shut as it didn't go over well when suggested as a platform for power ratings/descriptions for character build guides.
You could even potentially have the thread display a read-only view of the spreadsheet that updates as folks modify it, so that you wouldn't even have to copy and paste as much. It looks like there's an option to have it republish as changes are made, so you wouldn't have to manually update the view (unless you wanted to do so to maintain some sort of editorial control... but it sounds like you're shooting for low-maintenance, which is how I like to roll).
Let me know if you want a hand setting up those views. I'm not an expert at Google docs but I bet I could figure it out.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 26, 2012 - 1:18PM
#58
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Date Joined:
Jan 23, 2008
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Hopefully tonight I'll be able to copy over 1 section (Level 12 should be easy). I'll also spend some time on what I'll with my 5 posts. I'm thinking
- Link to spreadsheet, Link to how to calculate DPR -> KPR, rules for candidates, other links you guys use frequently
I think the spreadsheet idea is brilliant. I almost suggested it, but kept my mouth shut as it didn't go over well when suggested as a platform for power ratings/descriptions for character build guides.
You could even potentially have the thread display a read-only view of the spreadsheet that updates as folks modify it, so that you wouldn't even have to copy and paste as much. It looks like there's an option to have it republish as changes are made, so you wouldn't have to manually update the view (unless you wanted to do so to maintain some sort of editorial control... but it sounds like you're shooting for low-maintenance, which is how I like to roll).
Let me know if you want a hand setting up those views. I'm not an expert at Google docs but I bet I could figure it out.
Currently I have it configured so that whenever any row in {Heroic 1, Heroic 6, Paragon 12, Paragon 16, Epic 24, Epic 30} is changed the sheet 'HTML' is also changed. When I get around to updating this thread with the new content all I have to do is to copy a range and paste it into my post(see the HTML button at the top of the post tools). I have already made the mainenance low.
DPR King Candidates 3.0How much damage should I shoot for?
Show
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR
Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR
Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR
Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR
It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
Show
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit
KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage
= DPR/(8*level+24)
KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
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1 year ago ::
Jan 26, 2012 - 1:32PM
#59
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Date Joined:
Apr 27, 2009
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Slick! I didn't even think about the board code. What I had in mind was more using the "publish" function to embed a view of the spreadsheet. No copy and pasting would have been needed at all. However, the format is way different than what the board code version would look like. [edit] Doh! It can't decide whether or not to let the iframe through.... docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US...iFrame Removed
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1 year ago ::
Jan 26, 2012 - 1:46PM
#60
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Date Joined:
Jan 23, 2008
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Slick! I didn't even think about the board code. What I had in mind was more using the "publish" function to embed a view of the spreadsheet. No copy and pasting would have been needed at all. However, the format is way different than what the board code version would look like.
[edit] Doh! It can't decide whether or not to let the iframe through....
docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US...
iFrame Removed
Will definitly use that link.
Lurkers: docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US...
Builders: docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqL...
Yeah, I like that.
DPR King Candidates 3.0How much damage should I shoot for?
Show
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR
Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR
Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR
Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR
It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
Show
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit
KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage
= DPR/(8*level+24)
KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
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