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1 year ago ::
Jan 25, 2012 - 4:22AM
#1
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I've been thinking of feats for a long time. From my point of view feats are the mess that killed 3E, and even in 4E they are too many and they cause the biggest unbalance. There are some not used feats and there are "must have" feats.
Levels, races, classes, ability scores, and skills have to be enough in a simple game. And perhaps magic items as supplement as well.
If feats stay, I would prefer if they were just a few, and more universal, like More Powerful Attack (regardless of attack by sword, by bow or by magic) or Improved Armor (regardless of type of armor) for instance.
Less skills ment better balanced, universal skills with all valid choices. Split feats to combat and non-combat would be useful as well I guess.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 25, 2012 - 4:26AM
#2
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Split feats into combat and noncombat, AND HAVE A DIFFERENT RESOURCE FOR EACH. Call them feats and Talents, or something, but by cordening them off, you can take roleplaying flaws for roleplaying talents, without min maxers charoping through the roof.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 25, 2012 - 5:39AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Nov 19, 2008
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More than anything you just need to keep the number of feats in check. Currently when I load up the character builder I have over 1,000 feats to choose from when I create a 1st level character. You would think that more choices amounts to more happiness but it doesn't. There is no way I'm going to read through 1,000 feats. Therefor I know ahead of time that I'm not picking the best feat for my character.
There's something called the paradox of choice. More choices equates to more happiness up to a point. After a while though you become overwhelmed and you hate all the choices you're given because there's no way you can make the right one.
So what is the magic number where people feel like they have plenty of choice, but don't feel overwhelmed? Studies suggest 5-8. This isn't really that surprising since that number also corresponds with the number of things an average person can keep in their head at once.
Now clearly if feats were implemented we'd like to have more than 5-8 feats. This is where nesting or categorization comes in.
My idea:
5-8 categories of feats (combat, social, exploration, stealth, etc...)
5-8 feats in each category.
This is easy to follow, you can find the kind of feats you're looking for very quickly, you won't feel overwhelmed but you run in to an issue. This system isn't easy to expand on. Historically expansion books have added additional feats but this system allows for a maximum of 64 feats. That may not be enough for some people and you'd either have to drastically limit your initial feat numbers or release few or no expansion feats.
Another idea that has been explored in the past are feat trees or paths. This system means that after you choose a feat you have some additional feats you may choose down the line based on prerequisites. A path gives you a single progression of prerequisite feats where as a tree offers different ways to progress a single feat. Both of these systems have been used in the past and they are not mutually exclusive.
This could be added into the above system so that each feat ends up with a progression path or tree of feats nested under it. The issue with this is that it can still be overwhelming. You now need to be aware of each feat's progression rather than just the base feat. On the other hand it could offer some further expansion without being too overwhelming because if the base feat doesn't fit your character odds are the progression feats won't either.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 25, 2012 - 5:42AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jan 22, 2012
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More than anything you just need to keep the number of feats in check. Currently when I load up the character builder I have over 1,000 feats to choose from when I create a 1st level character. You would think that more choices amounts to more happiness but it doesn't. There is no way I'm going to read through 1,000 feats. Therefor I know ahead of time that I'm not picking the best feat for my character.
There's something called the paradox of choice. More choices equates to more happiness up to a point. After a while though you become overwhelmed and you hate all the choices you're given because there's no way you can make the right one.
So what is the magic number where people feel like they have plenty of choice, but don't feel overwhelmed? Studies suggest 5-8. This isn't really that surprising since that number also corresponds with the number of things an average person can keep in their head at once.
Now clearly if feats were implemented we'd like to have more than 5-8 feats. This is where nesting or categorization comes in.
My idea:
5-8 categories of feats (combat, social, exploration, stealth, etc...)
5-8 feats in each category.
This is easy to follow, you can find the kind of feats you're looking for very quickly, you won't feel overwhelmed but you run in to an issue. This system isn't easy to expand on. Historically expansion books have added additional feats but this system allows for a maximum of 64 feats. That may not be enough for some people and you'd either have to drastically limit your initial feat numbers or release few or no expansion feats.
Another idea that has been explored in the past are feat trees or paths. This system means that after you choose a feat you have some additional feats you may choose down the line based on prerequisites. A path gives you a single progression of prerequisite feats where as a tree offers different ways to progress a single feat. Both of these systems have been used in the past and they are not mutually exclusive.
This could be added into the above system so that each feat ends up with a progression path or tree of feats nested under it. The issue with this is that it can still be overwhelming. You now need to be aware of each feat's progression rather than just the base feat. On the other hand it could offer some further expansion without being too overwhelming because if the base feat doesn't fit your character odds are the progression feats won't either.
I wouldn't say that system is limited to 64 feats. People do get bored after a while. Familiarity breeds contempt.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 25, 2012 - 5:53AM
#5
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Levels, races, classes, ability scores, and skills have to be enough in a simple game.
I vote for that, unless Feats ARE your class abilities instead of what they are in 4e.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 25, 2012 - 5:56AM
#6
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Also, Race and class prerequisits can also be used to limit a catigory to 5-8 choices.
That is, the "Race" catigory can have 8 choices for Human, 8 choices for Elf, ect.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 25, 2012 - 6:01AM
#7
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I don't mind the concept of feats, just the implementation and how they can become redundant or useless as more get published.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 25, 2012 - 6:13AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Nov 19, 2008
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Reguardless of all things they should be made optional. In 3rd ed they weren't, in 4th ed they were. I've actually dropped feats from most of my 4e games and I don't miss them.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 25, 2012 - 10:02AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Sep 14, 2008
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I do like the customization that feats allow, but without the guides on the CharOp boards I'd be completely lost in the sea of them.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 25, 2012 - 2:03PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jun 14, 2009
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4E's feat system is almost perfect. There is a wide variety of feats available so you rarely see the same feat progression all the time. They need to be more balanced, and I love the idea of a feat/talent system seperating combat and non-combat options.
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