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1 year ago ::
Feb 27, 2012 - 4:42AM
#41
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Date Joined:
Feb 21, 2012
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I always thought the Shadow Weave and Weave existed in about the same time when magic first came about on Toril. I am guessing what I am ask when the Weave first occured on Toril the Shadow Weave occured roughly the same time to maintain balance between light and dark. My impression when Selune and Shar battle the first time the combine energies that first created Mystryl also created the Weave and Shadow Weave. As long as Mystra was alive and protecting the Weave she was also indirectly protecting the Shadow Weave.
My theory is that the Shadow Weave and Weave two aspects of the whole and one can't exist without the other. I never really played mage characters as DM I did read up on the magic of Toril and came up with this.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 27, 2012 - 10:30AM
#42
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Depends on which explanation you choose to pay attention to. I seem to recall at least three that were somewhat different from each other... that the Shadow Weave was simply the shadow that the Weave cast on the world and had always been there... that Shar created it somehow, which I think is the most plausible, since if it was a part of the Weave, then Mystra should have had control and awareness of it from the word go... then I think there was something about some magical disaster or other creating it somehow, maybe Karsus or something. At least those are the three that I can remember offhand, though keep in mind I'm going purely off of memory here.  So I don't see any particular reason why any DM couldn't come up with the explanation that made most sense to them and going with that, considering how much the lore conflicts on that particular point. Not that they aren't free to do that anyway, no matter how concrete the lore is... 
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1 year ago ::
Feb 27, 2012 - 5:15PM
#43
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All of them, Mystryl, Mystra, and Midnight have been neutral. Mystral was Chaotic Neutral, Mystra was Lawful Neutral, and Midnight was Neutral Good. A technicality, certainly, and a little pedantic, but I just thought I'd point it out... 
lol Semantics! :D The first two were fine, but Midnight need an alignment change. Maybe to true neutral. :P
Thus, we find the entrance of the Shadow Weave into FR lore. By its very existence, the need for a counter-balance was needed. Therefore, Midnight/Mystra was aligned as good.
My response to that train of thought is always the same.
No, it wasn't. That is, it wasn't needed. At the very least, Mystra becoming good wasn't needed.
A different, good aligned diety could have stepped up to the plate, while Mystra retained neutrality. This god of Good magic could have sponsored magic users who worked for the cause of good in the Realms, and opposed Shar and her Shadow Weave.
Likewise, a Neutral Mystra could simply have opposed the SW as an affront to the Weave and the natural order, while various gods of good opposed Shar, as always, and also users of the Shadow Weave...because it's evil. Not because it's evil magic, but because it's evil.
Shar and her Shadow Weave had plenty of built in opposition without ruining a perfectly good goddess.
Not a knock toward you, btw. Just my thoughts on that matter.
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
I could say anything in D&D is silly though, because it's a silly game and we are silly people.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 27, 2012 - 5:21PM
#44
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Depends on which explanation you choose to pay attention to. I seem to recall at least three that were somewhat different from each other... that the Shadow Weave was simply the shadow that the Weave cast on the world and had always been there... that Shar created it somehow, which I think is the most plausible, since if it was a part of the Weave, then Mystra should have had control and awareness of it from the word go... then I think there was something about some magical disaster or other creating it somehow, maybe Karsus or something. At least those are the three that I can remember offhand, though keep in mind I'm going purely off of memory here.
So I don't see any particular reason why any DM couldn't come up with the explanation that made most sense to them and going with that, considering how much the lore conflicts on that particular point. Not that they aren't free to do that anyway, no matter how concrete the lore is...
If my existence happens to cause the existence of something else, it does not logically follow that I will have control, or even awareness of that second thing. I might, but it is far from a guarantee.
I also just don't like/believe the idea of Shar creating....anything. To me, she is entropy. She can no more create than darkness can illuminate.
Just my 2 ravens.
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
I could say anything in D&D is silly though, because it's a silly game and we are silly people.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 27, 2012 - 9:20PM
#45
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My point there was that if it was a part of the Weave, then its hers, given that she pretty much was the embodiment of the Weave. Not caused by, but a part of. That was hinted at a few times that I recall, then it got changed to something else, then something else again. They were never clear on what the nature of the Shadow Weave was exactly... probably because they pretty much lifted the idea from... Birthright I think it was.
As to it being "needed" to counterbalance the good Midnight/Mystra, I'd probably agree with that, though that could have been easily avoided if they hadn't pulled that crap at the end of the ToT. It was a pretty ham-fisted solution to a "problem" that didn't need to exist in the first place. A far easier solution would be to have Midnight subsumed by the essence of the last Mystra and leaving things pretty much unchanged except for a brief bump in the road in terms of alignment. At least that's what I would have done.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 28, 2012 - 11:08AM
#46
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My point there was that if it was a part of the Weave, then its hers, given that she pretty much was the embodiment of the Weave. Not caused by, but a part of. That was hinted at a few times that I recall, then it got changed to something else, then something else again. They were never clear on what the nature of the Shadow Weave was exactly... probably because they pretty much lifted the idea from... Birthright I think it was.
As to it being "needed" to counterbalance the good Midnight/Mystra, I'd probably agree with that, though that could have been easily avoided if they hadn't pulled that crap at the end of the ToT. It was a pretty ham-fisted solution to a "problem" that didn't need to exist in the first place. A far easier solution would be to have Midnight subsumed by the essence of the last Mystra and leaving things pretty much unchanged except for a brief bump in the road in terms of alignment. At least that's what I would have done.
I would have had Mystra live, and Midnight become a demi-god in service to her, that focuses more on the goodly use of magic, than on magic itself. But I'd accept your solution.
And I still don't "buy" the shadow weave thing. Maybe the SW is part of the Weave Proper, maybes it's a seperated mirror image, maybe it's a...shadow, of it. But if it's a shadow of it, that doesn't necessarily mean that Mystra would be aware of it. Particularly if it is a shadow hiding in the Weave's shadow. 
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
I could say anything in D&D is silly though, because it's a silly game and we are silly people.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 28, 2012 - 2:33PM
#47
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To be honest, I never had much use for Midnight, she kinda bugged me actually. If I really had my way, I'd pretty much ignore the ToT entirely, which I do in the game I DM.
As to the nature of the Shadow Weave, like I said, it depends on which definition you pay attention to, gods know there have been plenty of them. Personally, its another one of those things I ignore the existance of, since I think its a stupid idea in the first place that flys in the face of my preferred thoughts and musings on magic. If it is literally a 'shadow' of the Weave, then yeah, Mystra has no influence over it whatsoever, or even knowledge unless she happens to notice it. The mirror-image thing... would really depend on how that happened, so I guess I'd say 'maybe yes, maybe no' to that one.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 28, 2012 - 4:36PM
#48
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Fiar dues.
personally, I like the Shadow Weave. It appeals to me to have a dark shadow of the natural order, in magic.
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
I could say anything in D&D is silly though, because it's a silly game and we are silly people.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 28, 2012 - 10:17PM
#49
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If it works for you. Personally, I don't really see why its necessary, since my own personal views of magic is that its pretty much uncaring as to what you do with it, or why. It just is, and its the mortals who view it through their own ethical and moral perspectives are kinda deluding themselves in a lot of respects. Of course it can be flavored with invocations to certain sorts of beings, good and evil, but otherwise its uncaring and unconcerned with morality and ethics. But that's my own personal interpretation of it, and I'm firmly in the whatever works at your gaming table camp of gaming, so if you like it, I'll be the first to encourage you to use it.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 28, 2012 - 11:50PM
#50
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If it works for you. Personally, I don't really see why its necessary, since my own personal views of magic is that its pretty much uncaring as to what you do with it, or why. It just is, and its the mortals who view it through their own ethical and moral perspectives are kinda deluding themselves in a lot of respects. Of course it can be flavored with invocations to certain sorts of beings, good and evil, but otherwise its uncaring and unconcerned with morality and ethics. But that's my own personal interpretation of it, and I'm firmly in the whatever works at your gaming table camp of gaming, so if you like it, I'll be the first to encourage you to use it.
I always figured that the shadow weave also worked differently than the normal weave. Otherwise, I'd probably pretend it didn't exist.
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
I could say anything in D&D is silly though, because it's a silly game and we are silly people.
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