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1 year ago ::
Jan 23, 2012 - 11:54AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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A lot of 'debate' has been done about the relative badassery of fighters and wizards throughout D&D. There's a sizeable section of people who don't want fighters to suck at high level, and I thought it'd be nice to provide an example of what I think a high-level fighter should look like.
Kratos, God of War. No spells, no magic, just ridiculously superhuman strength and agility, with some badass weaponry he knows how to use better than anyone on the planet. This is what an epic fighter should be, to me.
Now, I ask this in a completely serious manner: Does anyone think that this is out of line? Should this not be the case?
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1 year ago ::
Jan 23, 2012 - 11:58AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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I love to think of high-level fighters as similar to Kratos too. However, for the sake of truth, I need to point out that Kratos has magic, spells and the like. I also believe that fighters should pick up some magic abilities in any case, because let's face it: they are in a fantasy world. Heroes are magical in their very nature, because they do things that other people are not able to do. Living in a magical world and doing all that adventuring is bound to give you some magical knack...
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1 year ago ::
Jan 23, 2012 - 12:01PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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Some magic, yeah, but even now I don't really think of it as core to his badassness. If you were to take Kratos without his spells, that really is what I think of as a high-level fighter. Being able to zap people with Poseidon's wrath isn't really what I mean. It's the ridiculously awesome things he does with those chains.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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1 year ago ::
Jan 23, 2012 - 12:10PM
#4
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When I think of a super-badass fighter, I expect him to have high stats and abilities, but I also expect him to have access to the best armor and weapons available in the campaign. If the campaign has magic in it, then he should have premium magical gear.
He should also have appropriately powerful contacts, resources and followers. I think this component got lost somewhere between 1e and 4e.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 23, 2012 - 12:33PM
#5
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Kratos without spells in a good example of what a high level fighter could be. (the only god of war game I have played was on the psp and I don't recall him having any spells... )
I agree that he should have powerful contacts, resources and followers... and magic items... all at levels appropriate to the setting.
What do I mean by that? well conan had all the badassery... but he rarely had any magic items (off the top of my head the only time he had a magic sword was "phoenix on the sword"... but I've not read all of the stories. PS. only counting Robert E. Howard's work). In that setting magic items are very rare so he shouldn't need to have them. They do exist though... so he could have one.
I, personally, dislike the 'magic item in every slot' approach... but if they are that common in your game then so be it.
I think Kratos's weapons definately count as magical though. And that is fine.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 23, 2012 - 12:45PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Sep 24, 2009
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It's been a while since I've played God of War, but games like that and others usually have the warrior unlocking special moves and combos as you progress through the game. Player skill comes in how effectively you use those combos in succession. 4e does exactly that with it's model of A/E/D/U. Knights, Slayers, and Hunter also do this although you're simply switching between stances but using the MBA as your catch all leading to a similar effect in game play. This was somehow simpler. AEDU isn't that complicated at all if people took the time to step back and see what it was doing. Some people just refused and only saw them as "spells". So you can already be like Kratos. Hopefully 5e won't abandon melee classes and make them nothing more than the Wizard's lackeys like older editions did.
Moderated by
ORC_Ragnar
on Jan 23, 2012 - 03:26PM
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1 year ago ::
Jan 23, 2012 - 12:49PM
#7
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picture snip
Goddamn, I liked that picture the first time I saw it and I still love it today.
It shows exactly what a high level martial character should be: "Yeah, sure, you go manipulate time a little, I'll tear the head off that Exarch over there and then beat his god to death with it."
I like me some epic martial types.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 23, 2012 - 1:57PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Dec 27, 2008
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I don't think it is out of line. The problem is that if you want to introduce magic into the equation, then I can easily imagine more powerful wizards. The problem comes if we want to allow extreme PC fighters into the same system as PC wizards who can kill them with a thought from miles away before the fighter wakes up in the morning, which is what some wizard players want.
However powerful you can imagine a fighter, I can imagine a more powerful wizard. Because ultimately that's what magic means.
Quite simply if you want to allow epic level fighters, the power level of PC wizards needs to constrained. I'm fine with that personally, because even in 4e I start to lose interest by epic levels. But obviously there are a lot of players who don't want any limits on their wizard.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 23, 2012 - 1:59PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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imagine
This hits the nail on the head.
The issue about fighter-wizard balance isn't about how powerful we want them to be. It's the idea that the fighter represents the real, and the wizard represents the imagined.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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1 year ago ::
Jan 23, 2012 - 1:59PM
#10
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2002
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If we want an entirely mundane fighter, go look up Groo the Wanderer.
No magic items.
INT score of roughly 2.
Unstoppable murder machine.
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