Actually, we could keep the weapons as they are, but change the striker rider of... whatever the striker feature is called to "You can move two squares as a swift action before the end of your turn"
Hmm, not a bad idea there. Instead of the striker being a damage-centric only character, we could have the striker role more centric on stealth, ambush and mobility, with damage as an extra if you're striker-centric. Definitely something to think about
How about the striker role feature being something more like this:
Deadly Strike
Striker Attack
A feint, a bluff, a flash of light. Everything is a blur to the dying foe at your feet.
At-Will
Triggered Action - Personal
Trigger:You hit with an attack against an enemy.
Effect: The target takes 1d6 extra damage. This damage increases to 2d6 at level 11, and 3d6 at level 21. In addition, the attack gains an additional benefit based on your secondary role:
Leader: The next attack against the target gains a power bonus to damage rolls equal to your primary ability modifier.
Defender: The target is marked by you until the end of your next turn.
Controller: You can slide the target 1 square.
Striker: You can move one square. If you end this movement in a square that grants cover, superior cover, concealment or superior concealment to you, you can make a Dexterity or Stealth check to hide.
Special: You can only use this power once per turn. However, using this does not count toward the normal restriction on Triggered Actions.
We could then have the Striker riders of other powers alternate between movement, stealth, and damage That should make things more interesting... so now we have
Leaders - grant ally movement - increase damage, defenses, saving throws and accuracy - grants healing, damage resistance, saving throws and temporary hit points
Controllers - forces enemy movement - decreases enemy damage, defenses, saving throws and accuracy - grants debilitating conditions that limit enemy effectiveness
Strikers - grants self movement - generally ambushes, strikes from afar, or takes advantage of various situations - heavy damage dealer
Defenders - part-leader, part-controller, part-striker, in the sense that he mitigates ally damage and helps them survive longer (Leader), he forces enemies to make tough decisions in terms of positioning and or attacking (Controller), and he has brutal retaliation at hand when he is ignored (Striker).
I guess that makes the whole paradigm as follows: * Positive effects (Leader) * Negative effects (Controller) * Damage dealer (Striker) * Hybrid (Defender)
You are both rational and emotional. You value creation and discovery, and feel strongly about what you create. At best, you're innovative and intuitive. At worst, you're scattered and unpredictable.
If you're crossing the street and see a city bus barreling straight toward you with 'GIVE ME YOUR WALLET!' painted across its windshield, you probably won't be reaching for your wallet.
This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery.
What I have noticed about the powers that pop into my head, is that they are all lean toward some role, like "Synchronized Attack" is warlord-oriented attack, for example. There is nothing wrong with powers having a certain kind of edge before the role-riders come in, that is what makes them unique, different from the other powers, and allows there to be some kind of a theme to all the riders.
I'm also going to come up with a will or fortitude attack for the casters.
Bolstering Shower
Attack 7
A shower of magic falls down on the battlefield, clinging to your allies and aiding them, while painfully burning your enemies' skin.
EncounterImplement
Standard Action - Area burst 1 within 10
Target:Each enemy in burst.
Attack:4 + level vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1d4 + Primary ability modifier damage + 1/2 your level and the target *insert minor controller effect here*. Each ally in the burst gains 10 temporary hit points.
Controller: Each ally in the burst can move 2 squares as a swift action. While an ally has temporary hit points granted by this power he can move 1 square at the end of his turn as a swift action.
Leader: The temporary hit points are increased by 5. While an ally has temporary hit points from this power he can deal damage with his power of the same damage type used by this power instead of his attacks' normal damage type.
Striker: While an ally has temporary hit points from this power he gains a +1 bonus to attack rolls.
Defender: While an ally has temporary hit points from this power he gains resist 1 to all damage types except untyped.
I have no idea what's up with this power, I just thought of it and it sounds interesting. It is there to be improved upon, I just want heroic tier finish ASAP, and the best way to do so is to give you powers that make you think "No, I can make this better", encouraging you to do so and finish the tier ^^
Enforcing Will
Attack 7
You feel your enemy's mind, and attack it, overpowering with your iron will.
Encounter
Standard Action - Ranged 10
Target:One creature
Attack:4 + level vs. Will
Hit: 1d10 + Primary ability modifier + 1/2 level psychic damage. You slide the target 3 squares.
Controller: The target is dazed (save ends) and is under your influence. While under your influence it gains an additional swift action on its turn which you can choose what he uses it for, like dropping his weapon or releasing your ally from a grab.
Leader: The target treats one ally within range as being invisible (save ends)
Defender: The target cannot target an ally of yours unless marked by it or if said ally has an active defender aura (save ends). Said ally is not effected by any area of effect abilities by the target, but area of effects ability can still be cast with your ally in the area bla bla blabla
Striker: The target takes a -2 penalty to a defense of your choice (save ends). While under this effect your attacks against it can score a critical hit of a roll of 16-20, or 19-20 if you make more than two attacks against it in a single round.
The striker was going to be "18-20", but I felt like it encouraged multi-attacking to much, and we already have enough twin-strikers out there.
Deadly Strike: The damage scaling, I think (looking at sneak attack), should be 1d6, 2d6 and 4d6. Leader: I might be mistaken, but if the leader has too many "you gain bonus damage" then that rider stops being fun. If I'm wrong, then I have no comment on this rider. Striker: It's really rare that a concealed square is right adjacent to the monster. Otherwise it looks solid, needs playtesting though. I'm not really sure about the rules of stealth (awkward). When you end your move out of line of sight of your enemy, can't you usually roll a stealth check?
Regarding Riders: I love it. This should be talked about in the "roles chapter", where you explain the defenition of all these words to new players.
I probably wont remember this though, so whenever I come up with a suggestion make sure you go over the riders with your "List of Effects" in front of you, comparing the two and make sure that I'm not confusing defenitions xD
I fixed the multiclass feat, and compiled most of your feats that modified Foe's Folly into "Untraditional Syle" multiclass feat.
Improved Secondary Role [Multiclass] Benefit: You gain limited access to your secondary role's class feature, and one skill training of your choice. Defender Secondary: You can use the Foe's Folly attack power once per encounter. Striker Secondary: You can use Deadly Strike once per encounter. Leader Secondary: You can use Life-Giving Word twice per day, increasing to three times per day at level 16. Controller: Secondary You can use Controller Zone twice per day, increasing to three times per day at level 16.
Untraditional Style [Multiclass] Benefit: You are considered to have a different secondary role, other than either of your current roles, when using your role feature (Deadly Strike, Foe’s Folly, Controller Zone or Rejuvenating Word). This choice can be retrained. In addition, you gain one additional skill training of your choice.
This allows you to be Defender/Leader but do damage with your Foe's Folly (a la Paladin), or be a Striker/Striker and slide with your Deadly Strike (a la monk). Pretty cool, right?! :D
Deadly Strike: The damage scaling, I think (looking at sneak attack), should be 1d6, 2d6 and 4d6. Leader: I might be mistaken, but if the leader has too many "you gain bonus damage" then that rider stops being fun. If I'm wrong, then I have no comment on this rider. Striker: It's really rare that a concealed square is right adjacent to the monster. Otherwise it looks solid, needs playtesting though. I'm not really sure about the rules of stealth (awkward). When you end your move out of line of sight of your enemy, can't you usually roll a stealth check?
Regarding Riders: I love it. This should be talked about in the "roles chapter", where you explain the defenition of all these words to new players.
I probably wont remember this though, so whenever I come up with a suggestion make sure you go over the riders with your "List of Effects" in front of you, comparing the two and make sure that I'm not confusing defenitions xD
Point taken. Given the guidelines as above, I've got some changes in mind
That said, Sneak Attack's scaling was 2d6, 3d6, and 5d6 to compensate for the use of daggers and other relatively low-damaging weapons. With the extensive nature of our exercise, this scaling seems unnecessary, hence I don't agree with increasing it as such.
I fixed the multiclass feat, and compiled most of your feats that modified Foe's Folly into "Untraditional Syle" multiclass feat.
Improved Secondary Role [Multiclass] Benefit: You gain limited access to your secondary role's class feature, and one skill training of your choice. Defender Secondary: You can use the Foe's Folly attack power once per encounter. Striker Secondary: You can use Deadly Strike once per encounter. Leader Secondary: You can use Life-Giving Word twice per day, increasing to three times per day at level 16. Controller: Secondary You can use Controller Zone twice per day, increasing to three times per day at level 16.
Untraditional Style [Multiclass] Benefit: You are considered to have a different secondary role, other than either of your current roles, when using your role feature (Deadly Strike, Foe’s Folly, Controller Zone or Rejuvenating Word). This choice can be retrained. In addition, you gain one additional skill training of your choice.
This allows you to be Defender/Leader but do damage with your Foe's Folly (a la Paladin), or be a Striker/Striker and slide with your Deadly Strike (a la monk). Pretty cool, right?! :D
The Leader and Controller secondaries are out of line relative to the normal multiclassing benefits (Healing Word et al when gained via multiclassing is almost always once per day, with exceptions that make them once per encounter).
As for your Untraditional Style -- name alone needs fixing -- seems to be a bit too unwieldly in wording, especially the "other than either of your current roles", simply because you're already referring to the secondary role. Not to mention that it's restricted to only your role feature, with no benefits with your other powers as well. Those were my considerations when I worded my multi-role feats
What I have noticed about the powers that pop into my head, is that they are all lean toward some role, like "Synchronized Attack" is warlord-oriented attack, for example. There is nothing wrong with powers having a certain kind of edge before the role-riders come in, that is what makes them unique, different from the other powers, and allows there to be some kind of a theme to all the riders.
I'm also going to come up with a will or fortitude attack for the casters.
Bolstering Shower
Attack 7
A shower of magic falls down on the battlefield, clinging to your allies and aiding them, while painfully burning your enemies' skin.
EncounterImplement
Standard Action - Area burst 1 within 10
Target:Each enemy in burst.
Attack:4 + level vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1d4 + Primary ability modifier damage + 1/2 your level and the target *insert minor controller effect here*. Each ally in the burst gains 10 temporary hit points.
Controller: Each ally in the burst can move 2 squares as a swift action. While an ally has temporary hit points granted by this power he can move 1 square at the end of his turn as a swift action.
Leader: The temporary hit points are increased by 5. While an ally has temporary hit points from this power he can deal damage with his power of the same damage type used by this power instead of his attacks' normal damage type.
Striker: While an ally has temporary hit points from this power he gains a +1 bonus to attack rolls.
Defender: While an ally has temporary hit points from this power he gains resist 1 to all damage types except untyped.
I have no idea what's up with this power, I just thought of it and it sounds interesting. It is there to be improved upon, I just want heroic tier finish ASAP, and the best way to do so is to give you powers that make you think "No, I can make this better", encouraging you to do so and finish the tier ^^
Enforcing Will
Attack 7
You feel your enemy's mind, and attack it, overpowering with your iron will.
Encounter
Standard Action - Ranged 10
Target:One creature
Attack:4 + level vs. Will
Hit: 1d10 + Primary ability modifier + 1/2 level psychic damage. You slide the target 3 squares.
Controller: The target is dazed (save ends) and is under your influence. While under your influence it gains an additional swift action on its turn which you can choose what he uses it for, like dropping his weapon or releasing your ally from a grab.
Leader: The target treats one ally within range as being invisible (save ends)
Defender: The target cannot target an ally of yours unless marked by it or if said ally has an active defender aura (save ends). Said ally is not effected by any area of effect abilities by the target, but area of effects ability can still be cast with your ally in the area bla bla blabla
Striker: The target takes a -2 penalty to a defense of your choice (save ends). While under this effect your attacks against it can score a critical hit of a roll of 16-20, or 19-20 if you make more than two attacks against it in a single round.
The striker was going to be "18-20", but I felt like it encouraged multi-attacking to much, and we already have enough twin-strikers out there.
Both powers are way too strong relative to their level. To note:
Bolstering Shower
Potentially grants encounter-long swift action shifting if tempHP isn't removed.
Notice how I never really grant accuracy bonuses whenever possible; this is because in 4E, accuracy is effectively king especially in terms of dpr.
The defender wording is clunky at best.
Enforcing Will
There is only one encounter power at heroic tier that I know, that inflicts any (save ends) condition, and it's only ongoing damage.
The controller effect is basically Dominate, because swift action is already considered one action (which Daze restricts movement to).
The leader effect is rather... weak if you ask me.
The defender effect is crazy strong, as you effectively mark someone as immune to the target.
The striker effect is also crazy strong because of the insanely high crit rate.
I mean we have Come and Get It at level 7, but even that isn't at the same level as either power, and that power is already a bit over the top.
You are both rational and emotional. You value creation and discovery, and feel strongly about what you create. At best, you're innovative and intuitive. At worst, you're scattered and unpredictable.
If you're crossing the street and see a city bus barreling straight toward you with 'GIVE ME YOUR WALLET!' painted across its windshield, you probably won't be reaching for your wallet.
This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery.
Multiclass Yes, please fix the #2 multiclass feat. It's the effect I'm suggesting, not which letters to use to bring out that effect,
Powers: Ah, I forgot one thing. Add "This power has one other effect based on your primary and secondary role". Remove the controller effects from both powers, although forced movement kinda lost it value with the removal of Opportunity Attacks. All a creature has to do if out of place is to move back a few squares, and only a defender can do anything about it. This is still not a real drawback since a normal encounter is around 5 standard creatures of the players' level, and if I am a defender adjacent to FIVE creatures equally strong as me, I'd WANT at least three of them to move away xD. As a defender I find and neutralize the strongest opponent, sometimes two, but taking hits from an entire group for 6 rounds? No thank you!
Bolstering Shower
Reduce the THPs to 5.
You removed shifting and opportunity attacks. I figured you didn't have a problem with players having insane mobility.
The effect the removal of Opportunity Attacks will be more defender auras amongst monsters, which this power does not counter.
This is a level 7 power which allows a Striker/Striker to gain the same mobility as a level 1 monk.
I'm not argue-ing, if the power is out of line, it's out of line. I just want it to be out of line for the right reasons.
I agree on the accuracy bonus thing :D
Yup, and I hope it had the effect of making you cringe and think "I'm replying to this RIGHT AWAY". Fix the words, keep the effect
Enforcing Will
Look at Disruptive Shot, which is a Immobilize (save ends) OR a Dazed (save ends) that the hunter can use 2 times per encounter before level 5.
It's not a Dominate. It allows the creature to take it's standard action (like a normal dazed creature), and in addition to that a swift action the controller will use. This will set up some interesting roleplaying scenarios since the best use of this power will be to make that creature SPEAK, hopefully telling its troops to back down (Bluff vs. Will + 5 or 10 based on scenario)
I've never used that leader rider in-game, so I wouldn't know
By god fix the Defender rider xD It really needs a new effect. What about -5 to attack rolls against non marking non defender aura creatures? That's pretty much rendering allys immune to the target's attacks, but still allows them to be targeted.
Remove the words, keep the effect, balance it against "Sunder Armor", but make sure Twin Strikers won't become the best strikers in the game with one power.
Come and Get it vs. Haul foe IMHO. Haul foe is single target, come and get it is high-accuracy multi-target. If you want come and get it make a defender utility power "Mark and pull 2 squares, but not through hindering terrain. Target must end adjacent to you".
I hope you will fix these powers instead of just telling me what I did wrong, so we can get heroic tier complete ASAP. I'll start working on dalies. They WILL be over the top and you WILL have to scale them down xD
Let's see... daily powers.. hm. Flavor first, power second.
Let's see, something reactive? Let's try that.
Fight Fire with Fire
Attack 5
Daily
Triggered Action - Close burst 10
Trigger: An enemy within burst targets you or any of your allies in an area power that deals either Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning bla bla bla damage.
Effect: Two effect based on role.
Leader: Reduce the damage dealt by the triggering power by a number equal to your Primary Ability modifier + 2.
Striker: Until the end of the encounter, each ally targeted by the triggering power ignores 5 of the triggering creature's resistance of the same type as damage dealt by the triggering power.
Defender: If you are in the area you are now considered not to have been targeted bu the triggering power for any Defender triggers that triggers on "If an enemy targets an ally of yours but not you or an ally with an active defender aura). If you are not in the area.... Then you are screwed?
Controller: Roll at attack roll. 4 +level vs. Reflex implement attack roll. If the attack hits, the creature cannot make the attack and loses the action used to make that attack.
Actually, this would work better as an encounter power. As you can see I am just trying to generate as many powers as I can to finish the heroic tier.
Rain of Blows
Attack 5
This is like the fighter attack, but modified to your likings.
Daily
Triggered Action
Target:The target of the triggering power.
Trigger: You hit with a basic attack on your turn.
Effect:: The target takes 2[W] extra damage. Until the end of the encounter, at the start of your turn you can deal 1[W] damage to each creature adjacent to you as a swift action
...it still bugs me that I have infinite swift actions on my turn. Imagine all the potions I could chug!
I may post a variant of the system under optional rules that is heavily influenced by the D&D Next discussions and previews. The idea being that we flatten the system's math by a lot:
removing level-based bonuses to accuracy, checks, damage and defenses
scaling down HP progression significantly, both for players and monsters [probably making it Level 1: 10 + CON Score, with +2 per level for PCs, then monsters would have variations between +1 HP per level for those who normally get +6 HP, +2 per level for those who normally get +8 HP, and +3 per level for those who normally get +10 HP]
In fact, I'm tempted that the monster math remove level modifiers entirely, having only CON determine HP (with the exception of minions of course).
With the limited number of actions and lower HP, it should give us a much faster combat overall Gritty, fast, simple and still allows for 4E's balance and flexibility What say you?
You are both rational and emotional. You value creation and discovery, and feel strongly about what you create. At best, you're innovative and intuitive. At worst, you're scattered and unpredictable.
If you're crossing the street and see a city bus barreling straight toward you with 'GIVE ME YOUR WALLET!' painted across its windshield, you probably won't be reaching for your wallet.
This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery.
Ideally, a 'classless' character should be largely interchangable with a "normal" character. Abandoning stuff just to make the math easier doesn't really accomplish that ideal.
