|
1 year ago ::
Jan 14, 2012 - 12:18PM
#1
|
Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2010
|
So there has been talk about Vancian system. For the most part when I search this I find no real definition. Seems like everyone already knows what it is. So what is it?
Ant Farm
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Jan 14, 2012 - 12:52PM
#2
|
Date Joined:
Jan 14, 2012
|
I should probably look it up again as its been years since I've seen this reference but from what I recall the 1st edition method of how magic users memorized spells then forgot them after casting was based on a short story featuring two wizards by Jack Vance.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Jan 14, 2012 - 2:16PM
#3
|
|
|
Simply put - memorization of spells. A bit more: 1) Spells must be prepared ahead of time, casted and once casted they are forgotten until prepared again. 2) Spells are specific and have a specifc purpose. Fire ball creates a blast of fire, but not changed to create a stream of fire. 3) Wizards have a finite capacity of spell use. They can only memorize so much. 4) Magic when casted the wizard had to use the proper commands - speaking or waving hands. The whole concept is rumored to come from Dying Earth - which is set in the far future when the sun is about to explode and consume the earth. Magic (which was acutally derived from mathematics) and Technology were indistinguishable. Look up wikipedia for more information. Interesting triva: Vecna, Ioun Stones, and spells (prismatic spray) come from Dying Earth. Random Question pertaining to the origin of DnD - since magic was based on Dying Earth does that mean that DnD is actually a post apocalyptic genre? After all the orginial DnD had Barrier Peaks.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Jan 14, 2012 - 3:26PM
#4
|
Date Joined:
Jun 18, 2008
|
It is a system of spell casting. You had a certain number of spells a day. Had to prepare them and have all the necessary components in order to cast them. Most spells had a component that was needed (such as bat guano), a verbal element, and a physical element. If any one component was missing spellcasting got much harder.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Jan 14, 2012 - 3:52PM
#5
|
Date Joined:
Jan 13, 2012
|
And what a beautiful system it is!
Alignments are Fluid, meaning that they are based off of your actions, not your actions being based of the alignment.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Jan 14, 2012 - 3:56PM
#6
|
Date Joined:
Aug 13, 2004
|
It wasn't limited to wizards, all spellcasters were following this system. To translate, they had a lot of daily powers of different levels following a progession table. That's all they had, no at-will, no encounter. Low levels for wizards were hell levels, no interest at all beside roleplaying, all level one spells were sleep and magic missiles, sometimes charm persons outside combat. Clerics were memorizing cure light wounds and bless, and were more able in melee than a rogue. The idea of balance was absent from spellcasting as they were the only classes to rely on daily ressources and having nothing else. For examle, a 6th level wizard could cast X spells from the first spell level, X spells from the second spell level and X spells from the third spell level. Memorized at the start of the day without knowing anything of the future events. And these spells were subject to interruptions, resistances, immunities and… magic resistance. My description can make you think that I absolutly does not regret pure vancian spellcasting, but it's worse than that. Because of these years of playing vancian spellcasters, I can't read daily powers description without feeling sick  At-will spells are beautiful, I was in love with the 3rd edition warlock. And it was a weak class...
"They are making it clear that when modern design and common sense come into conflict with tradition, tradition wins." - thecasualoblivion
"Vancian isn't broken, you just have to set your game to the wizard's clock!" - Oxybe
"In many ways, making a new edition of D&D is alot like trying to sell a car to the Amish." - Dwarfslayer
"Encounters are the heart of the AD&D game" - PHB AD&D 2nd edition.
"you shouldn't even bother trying to become like me." - Gary Gygax (Elfcrusher confirmed)
"Feel free to claim I said anything you like. How's someone going to call you out on it? Are they going to be all like, 'I know all of the things that Gary said, and that's not one of them?'"
- Gary Gygax
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Jan 14, 2012 - 6:38PM
#7
|
|
|
From the all knowing wikipedia Memorization — The game character must memorize a fixed number of spells from the list of all spells the character knows. This memorization can only occur once in a specified time period, usually a day, or it may require the character to rest for several hours. This system is sometimes called "Vancian" in the game designer community, since its first use, in Dungeons & Dragons, was inspired by the way magic works in Jack Vance's Dying Earth world. [1][2] I always thought a way to fix vancian was to fix the broken spells (knock, invisibility, Save or Die, etc) and allow a wizard to read spells directly out of his spell book, but increase the casting time for doing so. So he could cast that fireball from memory 3 times a day, or spend 3 turns reading the fireballs spell out of his book. As for how long to increase the casting time, simple. Take the normal casting time and multiply by the spell level. Magic missile would still be one round, but animate dead would now be 4 rounds if cast from the book. If a third level spell had a minute cast time normally then it would take 3 minutes to cast directly from the book.
Im sorry but ADEU is a French word for goodbye, not a combat system. You say, "Encounter Power" and I stop listening to you. Have Played/Run
Show
D&D 1st ed
D&D 3.5 ed
D&D 4th ed
Shadowrun
Star Wars SAGA
Cyberpunk
Interlock Unlimited
Run.Net
I know my games, don't try to argue about them. Alignment Explained
Show
This is a very simple problem and I will outline it below.
Their are two types of people
Type 1: a lot of people (not all, but a lot) who play see alignment as "I am lawful good thus I must play lawful good"
Type 2: a lot of people (not all, but a lot) who play see alignment as "My previous actions have made people and the gods view me as lawful good.
The difference is subtle but it is the source of the misunderstanding. Alignment does not dictate how you play your character. All it does is tell you, the player, how the rest of the world views you, and your previous actions. Any future actions will be judged by their own merits.
Say you're a baby eating pyromaniac. You are most likely chaotic evil. But one day you decide, "Hey all I really need is love." So you get a wife, have a kid, and get a kitten named Mr. Snook'ems. You become a member of the PTA and help build houses for the homeless. You are no longer chaotic evil. And just because you were once chaotic evil it does not mean that you have to stay chaotic evil.
Alignment never dictates what you can do, it only says what you have done.
Now that is cleared up here is a simple test.
What is the alignment of...
A Police officer:
The average Citizen:
A Vigilante:
The answer is simple.
The Police officer is lawful good. He uses the laws of the country and city to arrest people and make them pay their debt to society.
The Citizen is Neutral good. He wants to live is a place that is Good and follows moral and ethical principle, but he sometimes finds the laws impedes him, and he wonders why we spend so much on poor people.
The Vigilante is Chaotic Good. He wants to uphold the morals and ethics of society but finds that the bad guys often slip through the cracks in the law. He takes it upon himself to protect the people from these criminals.
That is the basic breakdown of the good alignment axis. What needs to be remembered is that any one of these people can change alignments, easily.
The Police officer could be bought off by a local gang, and suddenly he drops to lawful neutral.
The average citizen might find that his neighbors dog is annoying, barking at night and keeping him up. So he poisons its food, now he is no longer good, he is stepping towards true neutral. Maybe the citizen really goes crazy also kills the neighbor, hello neutral evil.
It is possible that the Vigilante realizes that the cops are actually doing a pretty good job and decides to become an officer himself, leaving his masked crime fighting days behind him. Now he is Lawful good.
Your alignment is not carved in stone, it is malleable and will change to reflect your actions.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Jan 14, 2012 - 7:44PM
#8
|
Date Joined:
Jun 18, 2008
|
Frankly I find the cast times on spells to be utterly boring. In my opinion nothing is worse in a visceral combat by going. "Okay I keep casting" and not even knowing if the target will be alive at the end of a cast. Not only have you wasted a few rounds but you don't contribute to the fight.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Jan 14, 2012 - 7:47PM
#9
|
Date Joined:
Nov 10, 2011
|
Frankly I find the cast times on spells to be utterly boring. In my opinion nothing is worse in a visceral combat by going. "Okay I keep casting" and not even knowing if the target will be alive at the end of a cast. Not only have you wasted a few rounds but you don't contribute to the fight.
Could you elaborate on this? I have never encountered this.
Perhaps an example spell and situation you have encountered?
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Jan 14, 2012 - 7:53PM
#10
|
Date Joined:
Jun 18, 2008
|
I was using master_drows example of casting from a spell book instead of memorization or having used all the spells for one day.
|
|
|
