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Switch to Forum Live View Full-fledged Shadow Controller: Necromancer (homebrew in progress)
1 year ago  ::  Jan 15, 2012 - 3:36PM #11
Mist-Bound
Date Joined: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 1,390
I would actually argue Int/Cha for the Petmancer (you're using force of will - Charisma - to control and unify with a walking corpse) and Int/Con for a Destroyer (you are channelling the raw energies of death itself through your body; that needs toughness).

I'm honestly not entirely sure what I should say about your secondary post, though they do all look like valid manifestations of a necromancer's power.

Yes, I think your Soulnado makes a good official mark/blot/whatever it's supposed to be called.

I'll try and put together some flavor text for the builds as soon as I can.
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 15, 2012 - 3:52PM #12
Mist-Bound
Date Joined: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 1,390
Deadwalker Fluff: While most necromancers content themselves with merely raising or binding an undead slave when needed, some prefer to create a single, more reliable minion, one that is always present and which holds more power than any mere slave. Whilst some necromancers barter with or enslave existing undead, most prefer to raise or create undead exclusively for this purpose. The path of the Deadwalker involves the necromancer shaving out the tiniest sliver of his soul and implanting it into the minion. This binds them together in the most intimate manner; the minion is a conduit for the necromancer, and so long as one of them lives, the other is impossible to truly slay.

I was thinking, from this, that a Deadwalker necromancer is thusly able to trace line of sight from his pet as well as himself, that he can revive his pet if slain by sacrificing a healing surge, and that the pet's presence helps the necromancer for being successfully revived by the Raise Dead ritual.


Destroyer Fluff: Some necromancers choose not to embrace the undead, but rather to embrace the elemental forces of death itself. Wielding the destructive energies of shadow magic, they have little use for mindless, walking cadavers but instead slay their enemies directly, calling upon levels of offensive might that escape other necromancers, who must divide their attentions between death and undeath.

Features for Destroyers... escape me. I can see potential for making Lord of the Dead a path feature by having it grant not only diminished health loss from losing a summons but also the power to try and dominant/charm an enemy with the Undead keyword, though...
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 15, 2012 - 3:53PM #13
Mist-Bound
Date Joined: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 1,390
Deadwalker Fluff: While most necromancers content themselves with merely raising or binding an undead slave when needed, some prefer to create a single, more reliable minion, one that is always present and which holds more power than any mere slave. Whilst some necromancers barter with or enslave existing undead, most prefer to raise or create undead exclusively for this purpose. The path of the Deadwalker involves the necromancer shaving out the tiniest sliver of his soul and implanting it into the minion. This binds them together in the most intimate manner; the minion is a conduit for the necromancer, and so long as one of them lives, the other is impossible to truly slay.

I was thinking, from this, that a Deadwalker necromancer is thusly able to trace line of sight from his pet as well as himself, that he can revive his pet if slain by sacrificing a healing surge, and that the pet's presence helps the necromancer for being successfully revived by the Raise Dead ritual.


Destroyer Fluff: Some necromancers choose not to embrace the undead, but rather to embrace the elemental forces of death itself. Wielding the destructive energies of shadow magic, they have little use for mindless, walking cadavers but instead slay their enemies directly, calling upon levels of offensive might that escape other necromancers, who must divide their attentions between death and undeath.

Features for Destroyers... escape me. I can see potential for making Lord of the Dead a path feature by having it grant not only diminished health loss from losing a summons but also the power to try and dominant/charm an enemy with the Undead keyword, though...
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 15, 2012 - 5:19PM #14
mhbjarkistef
Date Joined: Sep 6, 2010
Posts: 998
Hm, I was wondering... This is an idea I have for the Pet (I'll post the rules about the pet in my next post after this one).

This is a very complicated and non-4e suggestion... but what if we allow the player to create his own undead minion, just like the necromancer creates his? We'll write the guide "in character" so the player really feels like he's creating his own minion.

Spoiler: Show

This is the basics of it:
"Greetings, necromancer. So, you have decided its time to bind yourself to a minons..." etc.

I'm gonna make a few combinations of HP, Defenses and Damage that are all balanced to each others (tanky w/ little damage vs. fragile w/ high damage)

Choose one of the following auras for your minion. But we (you) all describe them very flavoufully, so you are choosing the looks and style of your Pet, not the mechanics.
Bolstering:
· +2 to all defenses
· +2 to all damage rolls
· /an original idea based on flavour

Hampering:
· Grant combat advantage
· Take a -2 penalty to attack rolls
· Take a -2 penalty to defenses
· /an original idea based on flavour
 
Choose one of the following attacks:
The damage is determined by your Pet damage (balanced against HP and defenses), but each attack also has a secondary effect. The player should really see in his mind's eye how his character is molding his pet's wings, giving him the mouth of a wolf or the paws of a bear, even the tentacles of a displacer beast. 
Bite: +2 damage.
Slam:
 Prone
Swoop: Can shift 2 squares before and after the attack.
Tentacle:
Reach 2, and slides 1 square.


So, what do ya think? :D 
The more flavour the better. We can have 2 or 4 "premade" pets, for those that just want to play it right away. But for those "Advanced Necromancer", creating your own pet is pretty cool ^^

 

Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 15, 2012 - 5:51PM #15
Mist-Bound
Date Joined: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 1,390
That sounds very intriguing. I'm not 100% sure how I can support you with it, but I wouldn't mind trying this out and seeing if it'll work better than my original quartet of dark minion archetypes.
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 15, 2012 - 6:03PM #16
mhbjarkistef
Date Joined: Sep 6, 2010
Posts: 998
Necromancer's Servant
Rules without flavour.

· Your servant is considered an ally of you and your allies.
· Your servant is a creature and is affected as such.
· The servant is an extension of you, you can use your servant for line of sight but not line of effect. You can see and hear through your servant, but it cannot make perception checks.
· Your servant's level is equal to yours, and its hit points, defenses and attacks are determined by your level as noted in its stat block.
· Your servant shares your healing surge total. Whenever an effect requires your servant to spend a healing surge, the surge is deducted from your total. When you use your second wind your esrvant also regains hit points equal to your healing surge value.
· At the end of a short rest, your servant regains all its hit points.
· If you or your servant drop to 0 hit points the connection between you is disrupted. You can reanimate your servant in two ways:
    · You lose a healing surge as a minor action. Your servant is reanimated with hit points equal to your healing surge value.
    · You lose a healing surge at the end of a short or extended rest. Your servant is reanimated with full hit points.
· Your servant lacks a real mind of its own and relies on you for strict guidance while you are within 20 squares of it. You are linked to it telepathically and command it with your will. You take actions so that it can act, and its initative is the same as yours during an encounter.
    · Standard Actions: To take a standard action your servant needs you to take a standard action.
    · Move Actions: Whenever you take a move action your servant can also take a move action. Alternatively, you can stay put but take a move action to move your servant.
    · Minor Actions: To take a minor action, your servant needs you to take a minor action to command it to do so.
    · Free Actions: Your servant can take free actions without you having to take an action to command it to do so.
    · Triggered Actions: If your servant's triggered action is triggered it requires you to take the same type of action to command it to do so. This means you and your servant can only take one immediate action per round and one opportunity action per turn.
    · In situations where you can't give commands to your servant it can act independantly. Remember that your servant, although containing a part of your soul, only has animal-level intelligence. A sercant acting independently can take either a standard, a move or a minor action on its turn. It can also take opportunity actions and free actions, but it cannot take immediate actions. A servant acting indepentantly will still follow his master's orders for as long as it can.
· When your servant is destroyed the part of your soul contained within it re-emerges with your own. During you next extended rest you can create another servant by going through the servant creations steps or selecting a premade servant. Creating a servant usually requires a source of corpses and bonus, but these can also be summoned, so a necromancer can gain a servant no matter of his location. 

Sample servant stat block:
Feral Dead

Level equal to yours

Medium natural beast (undead)
Initiative equal to yours
Senses Perception equal to yours
Flaying tentacles aura 1; Enemies within the aura gain vulnerable 2.
HP Equal to your bloodied value; Bloodied: 
AC 15+your level; Fortitude 13+ your level, Reflex 13+ your level, Will 13+ your level
Speed: 8        Resist 5 Necrotic
Servant Attack ( Standard, at-will ) Beast
Reach 2, your level + 5 vs. AC. Hit: 1d8 + I have no idea damage and you slide the target 1 square.
Alignment Same as yours Languages Same as yours
Str 14 Dex 20 Wis 14
Con 17 Int 2 Cha 6


I need to intergrate the "You and your servent are one, all the life he possesses is originally yours" etc. Also, I was going to allow you to use your beast as an implement, but after some thought I decide it was not a good idea. I was then going to allow you to do it 1/encounter, but that just seems to be more pointless stuff to track.
I've yet to look at a few more sources with companions before I call this ready. So tired now, will do more later.

I do however support stuff like:
 
Channeled Might Necromancer Attack
You use your servant as a conduit for your necromantic powers.
At-Will Shadow, Implement, Servant
Standard Action - Close burst servant
Target:Each creature in burst
Attack:Intelligence vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1d6 + Intelligence modifier necrotic and force damage and the target is pushed 1 square away from the center of the burst.

Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 15, 2012 - 6:12PM #17
mhbjarkistef
Date Joined: Sep 6, 2010
Posts: 998
I want to at least try the "make your own servant" type thing. 

Could you do the text for me? Just imagine that somone is reading this from his Necronomicon.
I also need a list of:

· Ways for servants to attack (bearclaws, wolf-mout, scythe-hands, gorrila's grasp etc) and how they would hit differently from other attacks.
· Different "fighting styles" for the servant. What is he doing when he's not making attacks? He's not just standing there, he's either hampering nearby enemies or bolstering nearby allies. How? I need a list of ways a servant can do this.
· All kind of body parts that would grant various benefits. Why not create a servant who has the upper body of an ape and lower body of a spider?!

I have a friend who is very graphic, and is going to love to put together some especially monstrous servants.

Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 15, 2012 - 11:38PM #18
Mist-Bound
Date Joined: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 1,390
I'd like to help out with this, but... honestly, I really don't have any clue what to write or where to begin to write. I really do think, on reflection, it might be best to just give the four generic Dark Minion archetypes I suggested at first and do a "make a minion" expansion later on, after we've got those refined. Making your own minions is a very interesting idea, but it's a lot of work.
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 16, 2012 - 10:41AM #19
mhbjarkistef
Date Joined: Sep 6, 2010
Posts: 998

You're right about the servants, picking from a list is easier, and custom-pets is a lot of work.

This is your class, what kind of pets would you like to see? Just give me a list of possible servants, what they look like and what are their attributes and I'll get to it.


Each Servant has three varying attributes:
Defenses (high/medium/low for each defense)
Speed (fast/slow)
Damage and effect (high/low + effect)
One or two servant-specific qualities. (auras, utility or other)
· Ability to manipulate objects
· Ability to attack from afar/reach
· Aura: Adjacent enemies grant combat advantage
· Has fly speed.
· Aura: Allies in the aura can use a standard action to become invisible.
etc...


Having a pet is a pretty big bonus, what does the destroyer have to compensate for the petlessness?
If nobody comes up with anything, we might have to resort to both builds having a servant but benefit from it differently. The destroyer would then use it more in a teamwork (passive) kind of way (you gain a bonus against enemies adjacent your pet) while the Petmancer uses is pet in a more aggressive, and less passive, manner. (you gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls with powers that have he servant keyword).
I have a Sentinel in one of my groups, and because of his relationship with his pet the pet doesn't really do anything for most of the fight. What that tells me is that a class that has a pet but doesn't need it will most likely ignore it. We can safely give the destroyer a pet, but since he's so much stronger on his own he'll probably never spend actions on it. The Petmancer however can only reach his peak by using his servant and servant-related powers. How about we only allow the Petmancer to use servant powers, therefor excluding them from the Destroyer's power list?


The only feature I'm not 100% about regarding the servant is its ability to regain full hit points during a short rest. Maybe we'll make the Necromancer take X damage when his pet is bloodied to prevent him from using him as a meat-shield (I've seen it happen, It is amazing how much resources you can save just by letting a pet soak up damage for the first half of an encounter).


Ciaran, Crimson, Nbnmare, Chaosfang, where are you guys? :/


These are just ideas and mainly thematically. Its execution will have to be far more thought-out.



Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 21, 2012 - 1:21AM #20
Mist-Bound
Date Joined: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 1,390
Hmm... given that pets tend to be the harder class feature to balance, perhaps we should just stick to the Summoning & Damage focused builds at first? Make the Deadwalker an "expansion", ala Battlerager Fighter or Beastmaster Ranger?
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