|
1 year ago ::
Jan 13, 2012 - 8:10PM
#1
|
|
|
Since my last post died a lonely death from being too reasonable and polite, I'll post something a little more incendiary. WOTC, who are you expecting to buy 5e? Long time D&D players = we long since burnt out by all the incompatible versions and inconsistent support and ever increasing prices Rules Lawyers & Obsessive collectors = They moved on to Magic the Addiction in the mid 1990's and never looked back Role Players = These danced into LARPing and other semi-improv style games like Vampyre the Pretension Wargamers & miniature hounds = Warhammer 40k, Mountain Dew and bad rock music works just fine for them Hack & Slashers = WoW (blizzard, etc) does 24 hours a day without the need for messy and uncomfortable face-to-face interactions Casual gamers = Mafia Wars (Zynga et al) has made an offer that group can't refuse Storytellers & World Builders = MUDs, MUSHs, MOOs, Elderscrolls, Fallout, Half Life, Halo, etc, etc. basically every well thought-out FPS since 1995 To Summarize: The world has moved on since 1989  but WotC hasn't Hasbro, Please KILL Dungeons and Dragons, in all incarnations. Let us few remaining (hipster and retro) fans can enjoy the desiccated corpse the same way we did when it was alive all those decades ago. Put all of the remaining paper stock into the shredder and recycle it to better uses, like compost. On your way back from the shredder, fire everyone in the D&D department for incompetence, misfeasance and generally missing the point. If you have any non-cynical thoughts in the withered stone heart that sits in the dark center of the corporation, then publish the worlds without any game mechanics in them. Greyhawk, Ravenloft, Eberon, Forgotten realms, etc, all of them are well thought out fictional universes with some real copyright value. done and done
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Jan 13, 2012 - 11:24PM
#2
|
Date Joined:
Jun 18, 2008
|
This post is bad and you should feel bad.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Jan 13, 2012 - 11:39PM
#3
|
Date Joined:
Jan 13, 2012
|
This post is bad and you should feel bad.
I think that is the greatest one liner in the history of forums!
And I agree with Zoxesyr about 80%
There are still enough of us hoping for a revival of D&D, something somewhere between AD&D, and 3.5, with just a pinch of something new, but not 4E. 4E is WOW with face-to-face time.
Alignments are Fluid, meaning that they are based off of your actions, not your actions being based of the alignment.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Jan 14, 2012 - 3:51AM
#4
|
|
|
I agree with Limond. This is a sad post and you should feel sad.
I think I messed that up...
Still I can see the OPs point, and I feel his pain. But I can still hope, and with WoTC announcing a 5th ed, this old and broken heart is up for one last fight until it lays down its PHB for good.
Onward! To the good fight!
Im sorry but ADEU is a French word for goodbye, not a combat system. You say, "Encounter Power" and I stop listening to you. Have Played/Run
Show
D&D 1st ed
D&D 3.5 ed
D&D 4th ed
Shadowrun
Star Wars SAGA
Cyberpunk
Interlock Unlimited
Run.Net
I know my games, don't try to argue about them. Alignment Explained
Show
This is a very simple problem and I will outline it below.
Their are two types of people
Type 1: a lot of people (not all, but a lot) who play see alignment as "I am lawful good thus I must play lawful good"
Type 2: a lot of people (not all, but a lot) who play see alignment as "My previous actions have made people and the gods view me as lawful good.
The difference is subtle but it is the source of the misunderstanding. Alignment does not dictate how you play your character. All it does is tell you, the player, how the rest of the world views you, and your previous actions. Any future actions will be judged by their own merits.
Say you're a baby eating pyromaniac. You are most likely chaotic evil. But one day you decide, "Hey all I really need is love." So you get a wife, have a kid, and get a kitten named Mr. Snook'ems. You become a member of the PTA and help build houses for the homeless. You are no longer chaotic evil. And just because you were once chaotic evil it does not mean that you have to stay chaotic evil.
Alignment never dictates what you can do, it only says what you have done.
Now that is cleared up here is a simple test.
What is the alignment of...
A Police officer:
The average Citizen:
A Vigilante:
The answer is simple.
The Police officer is lawful good. He uses the laws of the country and city to arrest people and make them pay their debt to society.
The Citizen is Neutral good. He wants to live is a place that is Good and follows moral and ethical principle, but he sometimes finds the laws impedes him, and he wonders why we spend so much on poor people.
The Vigilante is Chaotic Good. He wants to uphold the morals and ethics of society but finds that the bad guys often slip through the cracks in the law. He takes it upon himself to protect the people from these criminals.
That is the basic breakdown of the good alignment axis. What needs to be remembered is that any one of these people can change alignments, easily.
The Police officer could be bought off by a local gang, and suddenly he drops to lawful neutral.
The average citizen might find that his neighbors dog is annoying, barking at night and keeping him up. So he poisons its food, now he is no longer good, he is stepping towards true neutral. Maybe the citizen really goes crazy also kills the neighbor, hello neutral evil.
It is possible that the Vigilante realizes that the cops are actually doing a pretty good job and decides to become an officer himself, leaving his masked crime fighting days behind him. Now he is Lawful good.
Your alignment is not carved in stone, it is malleable and will change to reflect your actions.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Jan 14, 2012 - 7:48AM
#5
|
|
|
I agree with Limond. This is a sad post and you should feel sad.
I think I messed that up...
Still I can see the OPs point, and I feel his pain. But I can still hope, and with WoTC announcing a 5th ed, this old and broken heart is up for one last fight until it lays down its PHB for good.
Onward! To the good fight!
I am sad.
I am tired of being manipulated by a corporation that only wants my money.
I am tired of reading posts by gamers who weren't born when I started playing, who don't know the history of RPG game design, and who haven't actually designed any games.
This post is bad and you should feel bad.
I take this as a high compliment, thank you very much.
Nothing good will come of this.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Jan 14, 2012 - 9:31AM
#6
|
Date Joined:
Jan 10, 2012
|
I agree with Limond. This is a sad post and you should feel sad.
I think I messed that up...
Still I can see the OPs point, and I feel his pain. But I can still hope, and with WoTC announcing a 5th ed, this old and broken heart is up for one last fight until it lays down its PHB for good.
Onward! To the good fight!
I am sad.
I am tired of being manipulated by a corporation that only wants my money.
I am tired of reading posts by gamers who weren't born when I started playing, who don't know the history of RPG game design, and who haven't actually designed any games.
This post is bad and you should feel bad.
I take this as a high compliment, thank you very much.
Nothing good will come of this.
Why stop with D&D? We should all give up fighting for our lousy species, lay down and die. 
You wouldn't have all these people on these forums griping and arguing like mad if not for the passion these players have for the game. Why do anything without passion?
Please don't advocate this nonsense. Keep the game alive for the people who love it. Try again.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Jan 14, 2012 - 9:44AM
#7
|
|
|
Why stop with D&D? We should all give up fighting for our lousy species, lay down and die.
I'm suggesting that Hasbro stop, not the fans, nor D&D.
All of this is all because Hasbro doesn't think $30 million profit per year is good enough, compared to the $100 million profit that MtG makes. The answer is already written on their ledgers, they are using us to justify their decision before publishing it to the world.
Maybe someone with an honest interest in gaming will resurrect the franchise.
The glorious beautiful chaos of home brew rules has always been a source of inspiration for me. That's the real future (if such a future even remains) of table top RPGs.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Jan 14, 2012 - 9:54AM
#8
|
Date Joined:
Jan 10, 2012
|
I'm suggesting that Hasbro stop, not the fans, nor D&D.
All of this is all because Hasbro doesn't think $30 million profit per year is good enough, compared to the $100 million profit that MtG makes. The answer is already written on their ledgers, they are using us to justify their decision before publishing it to the world.
Maybe someone with an honest interest in gaming will resurrect the franchise.
The glorious beautiful chaos of home brew rules has always been a source of inspiration for me. That's the real future (if such a future even remains) of table top RPGs.
Well, it's not a zero-sum game (so to speak). You can feel free to wow us with your home-brew ruleset. Meanwhile, people vote with their pocketbooks.
When 3.5 came out, dozens of people I know who left D&D in 2e came rushing back for good. WotC built some new logic in the game (uniform rules for monster types, for example) and it was good. Yes, the 2e grognards complained, but the edition lasted until they couldn't sell any more books (7-ish years).
When 4e came out, many people who were playing D&D LEFT the franchise (for Pathfinder). I doubt there would be a 5e conversation if 4e money was rolling in, and it's only been about 4 years.
This is not to say 4e failed. It didn't. A lot of different people (as opposed to us old-guard) got interested in the game. The changes to rules in 4e were courageous and long overdue.
Yet the fact remains that many people just don't like 4e. Many can't put their fingers on it. Many fans of 4e deny it. But at the end of the day, people vote with their pocketbooks.
My point is not to bash 4e - but that 5e is another opportunity to make a great game. Nobody loses. 4e is complete - you can play for the next 40 years (like the 1st ed holdouts have been). Us 3.5/PF folks still have our favorite game. 5e will compete in the marketplace and it will be judged (logically or not).
I can't wait to see it.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Jan 14, 2012 - 3:41PM
#9
|
|
|
Malkav that was amazingly insightful. And a very good point. Why am I worrying about 5th ed. Since 4th has declined they won't possibly make 5th a revamped version of 4th.... right?
Then again, I always thought that 4th was going to be a revamp of 3.5.... Man I was wrong on that one.
It is this fear that drives me to post like a mad monkey. I know 5th wont be a 3.5 but better. But I do want it to be a solid game. A game that can carry on the D&D legacy until another edition comes out in 5 or 10 years.
However I just look at how people are running from 4th ed and it makes me worry, "What if D&D is dead, What if 5th is just as bad as 4th and the fan base dies." I don't want to know the answer to that. So I am going to fight like a rabid mokey to make 5th a very good edition, one that gets fans, and can last a decade.
Im sorry but ADEU is a French word for goodbye, not a combat system. You say, "Encounter Power" and I stop listening to you. Have Played/Run
Show
D&D 1st ed
D&D 3.5 ed
D&D 4th ed
Shadowrun
Star Wars SAGA
Cyberpunk
Interlock Unlimited
Run.Net
I know my games, don't try to argue about them. Alignment Explained
Show
This is a very simple problem and I will outline it below.
Their are two types of people
Type 1: a lot of people (not all, but a lot) who play see alignment as "I am lawful good thus I must play lawful good"
Type 2: a lot of people (not all, but a lot) who play see alignment as "My previous actions have made people and the gods view me as lawful good.
The difference is subtle but it is the source of the misunderstanding. Alignment does not dictate how you play your character. All it does is tell you, the player, how the rest of the world views you, and your previous actions. Any future actions will be judged by their own merits.
Say you're a baby eating pyromaniac. You are most likely chaotic evil. But one day you decide, "Hey all I really need is love." So you get a wife, have a kid, and get a kitten named Mr. Snook'ems. You become a member of the PTA and help build houses for the homeless. You are no longer chaotic evil. And just because you were once chaotic evil it does not mean that you have to stay chaotic evil.
Alignment never dictates what you can do, it only says what you have done.
Now that is cleared up here is a simple test.
What is the alignment of...
A Police officer:
The average Citizen:
A Vigilante:
The answer is simple.
The Police officer is lawful good. He uses the laws of the country and city to arrest people and make them pay their debt to society.
The Citizen is Neutral good. He wants to live is a place that is Good and follows moral and ethical principle, but he sometimes finds the laws impedes him, and he wonders why we spend so much on poor people.
The Vigilante is Chaotic Good. He wants to uphold the morals and ethics of society but finds that the bad guys often slip through the cracks in the law. He takes it upon himself to protect the people from these criminals.
That is the basic breakdown of the good alignment axis. What needs to be remembered is that any one of these people can change alignments, easily.
The Police officer could be bought off by a local gang, and suddenly he drops to lawful neutral.
The average citizen might find that his neighbors dog is annoying, barking at night and keeping him up. So he poisons its food, now he is no longer good, he is stepping towards true neutral. Maybe the citizen really goes crazy also kills the neighbor, hello neutral evil.
It is possible that the Vigilante realizes that the cops are actually doing a pretty good job and decides to become an officer himself, leaving his masked crime fighting days behind him. Now he is Lawful good.
Your alignment is not carved in stone, it is malleable and will change to reflect your actions.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Jan 14, 2012 - 4:34PM
#10
|
Date Joined:
Jan 13, 2012
|
Hey guys, Don't blame me for being born in '87 to parents who thought D&D was evil "Of the Devil!" So I only have 6ish years of gaming, but I've been trying hard to make for it, playing in every "out of date" edition campaign I can get into. I'm trying guys, I am. I've never delved the Temple of Elemental Evil, but I'd love to. I just can't do it in 4E. I played 4E for about 9 months, every Sunday. And I couldn't, I can't play 4E ever again. I had bought the books, read them, initial thoughts were it was decent, and as I went into and played, and worked through the game, 4E just kept getting more and more painful.
But, during my 9 months of 4E experience, I noticed some things. (Backstory, we only ran D&D Encounters stuffs)
1) Paladin powers were no longer felt like his powers were based off of what his Deity commanded.
2) The Cleric was being outclassed by the Party's Paladin, in the healing world.
3) The Fighter was merely equal to the Warlord, who was also granting a bonus to the party's Initiative.
4) We would have been more effective, if we traded in the Wizard, the Cleric, The Fighter, the Rogue, and the the Warlock, for a Swordmage, and the rest to be Paladin's. So One Warlord, 5 Paladins, and one Sword Mage seemed to be more effective. Or maybe one less Paladin, and one Ranger.
Alignments are Fluid, meaning that they are based off of your actions, not your actions being based of the alignment.
|
|
|
