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Jan 14, 2012 -- 8:20PM, The_Ubbergeek wrote:

Jan 14, 2012 -- 8:14PM, Cassan wrote:

I think people hated it because they saw it as the demise of D&D and the rise of a MMO on paper.

As a game by itself it is quite impressive.

As a successor to previous editions of D&D it is quite depressing.

However it did bring a lot of good ideas forth and hopefully the good ideas will continue into 5e. 

A tired, lame and WRONG old canard peddled by Paizo and grognards unfairly. Many not even caring to look at the game and give it a chance.

It was a great successor, trashed unfairly. It is sad to see that again, also, (SOME) fans are always right, corps wrong.  

Call me crazy, but I compared 4e to an MMO to get my brother to play, who at the time was a WoW addict, and he listened. He had quit RPGs for years at that time, but the 4e=MMO got him back into the game. While his group eventually moved to 3.5 because 4e wore off on them, he's enjoying RPGs again. :D

I dont hate 4th edition. I ran a short campaign with it so as to give it a proper tryout and felt it had a lot of good points. Minions and solo monsters for example were a good idea that didnt really work in practice, but with a quick review and some changes, they could be made to work. This did start to happen, for example with the general raising of monster damage, but it was a very slow process, despite the seeming constant errata.

The errata seemed to balance downwards, making things worse and less fun, in the sake of balance and really it should have been used to spice things up. The fact it took so long to realise that monster damage simply wasnt a threat shows how boring the game was being made to be. The party were often godlike. Sure they were balanced in relation to eachother, but in relation to the monsters, they rolled all over them, even having alpha strike powers they could save for monsters they saw as a significant threat, vaporising them.

If anything, players disliked minions as they felt they "wasted" their horrendously nasty daily whammy. Monsters became "bosses" or an insignicant threat in player eyes and were more just numbers than unique and interesting foes. Powers were used in economic terms, not because they were cool or fun, but they were deployed in limited ways. Roles, likewise, became a hinderance and not an enjoyable part of certain classes.

As a player things were a little different. I loved ravenloft and planescape....neither of which this edition gave me. I loved forgotten realms as it was and that was taken away. I played a minion summoning necromancer and was told i was flat out wrong to do so because somehow i was abusing the other players, or was overpowered and thus no rules were given to me to move my character over to the new edition.

My account is named after that character, Shard, the necromancer, from the city of suzail, a priestess of chronepsis, neutral aligned. I lost my setting, my class, my alignment....its no wonder i felt unwelcome. I can only hope that 5th edition gives me a home once again.