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Jan 28, 2012 -- 12:04AM, Tectorman wrote:

If you're playing a Strength-using, weapon-using class, nothing.  If you're playing anything else, then your race gives you racial features that you're not using.

Minotaur Wizards, for example, are not likely to be doing much charging or have a good Strength score (and roughly a 50/50 chance of having any decent physical ability score).  Therefore, their bonus to AC when charging?  Useless.  Their capacity to get in one last MBA before dropping at 0 hp?  Useless.  Their racial charging power?  Useless.

From a min-max point of view, the Minotaur's racial features are useless for non-melee classes, and I fully admit to min-maxing oftentimes.

I think however that the Minotaur's racial fetaures are meant to recreate the feel of a Minotaur, so that no matter what class you play, you still have that Minotaur feel. So that even the High Priestess of Minotauria might charge at you in a crazed rage with her sacrificial dagger when all is lost and her minons all slain. So that even the aged Minotaur Sage in his tower can still make an awesome physical display when the occasion arises.

After all, if you want to min-max, do not build a Minotaur Wizard. If you just want to roleplay a cool concept, then why worry about a racial feature? Go with the flow and work with it.

Feb 11, 2012 -- 2:37PM, Hippolyte wrote:

I think however that the Minotaur's racial fetaures are meant to recreate the feel of a Minotaur, so that no matter what class you play, you still have that Minotaur feel. So that even the High Priestess of Minotauria might charge at you in a crazed rage with her sacrificial dagger when all is lost and her minons all slain. So that even the aged Minotaur Sage in his tower can still make an awesome physical display when the occasion arises.

Except none of that actually works, because neither of those characters will be Str/Con/Dex primary or have a MBA worth a damn.

Mar 8, 2012 -- 2:24PM, Hippolyte wrote:

It works from a roleplaying perspective, not from a min-max perspective.

It doesn't work from a mechanical/rules perspective, which is the only perspective that matters when we are assessing the design merits of mechanical/rules elements. The minotaur racial mechanics do not actually work for the purpose you are claiming they were designed. Therefore they are a failure. A mechanical option that just plain doesn't work does nothing for 'roleplay' or 'flavour'.

I ahve seen plenty of players pick suboptimal powers, feats and tactics because it fits their idea of what their character should do.

And those players should not be punished with crappy characters that can't actually live up to "their idea of what their character should do" just because some of the WotC design team couldn't design their way out of a wet paper bag.

If minotaur racial flavour dictates that the minotaur invoker should be berzerker-charging the enemy in a bind rage when her allies are down, then the rules should support her actually doing that with a reasonable degree of success. Right now, the rules are effectively saying to her player: "Don't do what your character would 'realistically' do, because it will just result in a TPK and your friends will hate you for getting their characters killed because of 'roleplay'. Just keep spamming Hand of Radiance and hope your allies can make their death saves."

If mechanics are supposed to represent or support 'flavour', then the most 'flavourful' thing to do should also be a reasonable choice tactically, not a non-choice that will get your character killed for no purpose.