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Switch to Forum Live View New to D&D and looking for advice
1 year ago  ::  Jan 14, 2012 - 11:57PM #11
Stryke-Man
Date Joined: May 26, 2011
Posts: 7

Jan 14, 2012 -- 11:42PM, Stryke-Man wrote:

It sounds like you are off to a good start because you want to make it fun for both them and yourself.  Good luck and find out exactly what works for you and your group by trying different things!




Also, hide your dice rolls behind a DM screen.  Occassionally if my group is breezing through encounter after encounter I will spice things up a little with a "fudge" and crit when I otherwise wouldn't to let them remember stuff happens.  Conversely, if my monsters get "too lucky" and I score multiple crits I have no problem with fudging a couple of those crits away (or missing entirely) to prevent a TPK.  Especially if the party was using smart tactics and playing their roles correctly.

That said I also let the PCs deal with logical consequences of their actions.  If they insult a king, expect to get thrown into a dungeon, if a 3rd lvl wizard wants to single handedly charge a horde of orcs I won't fudge my rolls to save him.  Stupid choices have tragic consequences (usually) and smart decisions are rewarded. 

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1 year ago  ::  Jan 15, 2012 - 1:27AM #12
TheBozz
Date Joined: Oct 30, 2011
Posts: 129
 My advice is never fudge a die roll.  Instead if you find your PCs are breezing through encounters realize you are either not building tough enough encounters to challenge the group or not using good enough monster tactics to challenge the group.  Either reevaluate your encounter tactics to play creatures with a decent intelligence more intelligently or just up your standard encounter level by 1.  So if they are breezing through your encounters that are designed as the same level as the PCs are.  Make the encounters PC level +1 and continue adjusting until you find the right challenge level.  PCs that find the DM is fudging critical hits against the PCs will not be too happy with said DM.  PCs that find the DM is removing the challenge from fudging away critical hits will also not perceive any real threat, and probably get more upset at the DM if he ever does TPK the party.  On the side of monster tactics if you find you are not challenging the PCs because of poor tactics quit having your intelligent monsters just stand there and swing at the defender.  Make your ranged monsters attack any "squishy" target in range without cover instead of plunking arrows at the defender.  Start using positioning to get combat advantage.  Use your encounter powers.  The PCs will generally appreciate being challenged by the challenge put infront of them.  I'm not saying you can't use "easy" encounters just realize if the PCs are breezing through encounters it is probably something you are doing other than just rolling poorly.

On the book choices I don't have the essentials player's books, but I do recommend both the monster vault and the Monster Vault: Threats to the Nentir Vale.  The nentir vale book has the monsters listed in groups that can definately be used together as well as fluff that you can use to build a campaign with.  It is my favorite of the monster books between MM1, MM2, MM3, MV, and MV:TttNV.  Oh and monster tokens come with both since I assume you do not have a collection of miniatures.  I almost like the tokens better than miniatures for non BBEG monsters.   
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 15, 2012 - 2:51AM #13
Talinfein
Date Joined: May 5, 2004
Posts: 8
Welcome to this wonderful hobby!

Here's my advice:

1. Don't worry about the next edition. It's at least 1.5 years out, if not more, so if you want to play D&D right now, play 4E.

2. Play through the Red Box and don't worry about inconsistencies with DDI. Use the options in the box first.

3. For beginners, I would suggest sticking with the Essentials line of products. For players, this means "Heroes of the Fallen Lands" and "Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms". Either one will do, having both offers more options. Having DDI, you can of course just make characters there, but the books take you through the steps nicely. Someone also needs to pick up a Rules Compendium (not necessarily you, the DM). Next, the DM's Kit is a good choice. It will give you lots of advice on how to run the game, has a DM screen (for looking up certain rules quickly) and, most importantly, an two-part adventure that you can play after the Red Box. I'm not sure if the tokens in the box cover all the monsters you need, but with the ones in the Red Box you should be fine.

4. Later on, you may want to add the Monster Vault (lots of useful monsters and tokens) and some Dungeon Tiles (however, these are easily replaced with a vinyl mat or simple sheets of grid paper).

5. Don't worry about getting things wrong; just have fun.
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 15, 2012 - 11:42AM #14
Redean
Date Joined: Dec 18, 2010
Posts: 3

Jan 14, 2012 -- 11:51PM, warrl wrote:

One thing I'll disagree with from earlier advice: the list of monster books for the DM.

FIRST, get Monster Vault.

After that, if you want, get your choice (one or both) of Monster Manual 3 or the Dark Sun Creature Catalog.

If that still isn't enough, get Monster Manual 2 but recognise that it's of lower quality. (But don't you have a DDI account for full Online Compendium access before you get to here?)

And if you really want a complete collection of dead-tree 4E books, finally get Monster Manual 1 but don't bother opening it. It was a first try at getting the balance between PCs and monsters right and, well, they missed. They didn't get it right until MM3. And then Monster Vault redoes a lot of the creatures in MM1.


Ok quick recap:
Get DM Kit, Monster Vault then use online resources and DDI to fill in gaps. Got it!

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1 year ago  ::  Jan 15, 2012 - 11:43AM #15
Rakashamano
Date Joined: Apr 27, 2010
Posts: 33
Is 5e really that far out? I'm in the same boat this guy is in but i assumed it would be sooner. I guess I'll check out this red box and subscribe.
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 15, 2012 - 2:18PM #16
AbdulAlhazred
Date Joined: Jan 9, 2009
Posts: 10,250

Jan 15, 2012 -- 11:43AM, Rakashamano wrote:

Is 5e really that far out? I'm in the same boat this guy is in but i assumed it would be sooner. I guess I'll check out this red box and subscribe.


Yeah, maybe August of 2013 at the earliest, so the Essentials books are a pretty good bet. The boxed set parts will mostly be useful with any future game (IE maps and counters and whatnot, those are always handy, as are dungeon tiles).

So Heroes of the Fallen Lands/Forgotten Kingdoms are good for player books. DM kit has a good adventure and other bits and pieces plus advice and such. Monster Vault is great. Having a Rules Compendium is handy, but not vital, you can skip that for now.

You COULD buy earlier books if you're interested enough, but frankly you can use DDI Compendium/Character Builder and pretty much have all that information. Some of the 'DM Side' supplements are fun, like the Draconomicons and Open Grave, but not at all needed. They mostly have a lot of good fun info and ideas for making your own campaigns and adventures. I especially liked Demonomicon, many fun nasty things in there, and MM3 has plenty of good monsters with some fun lore (but they are all in the Compendium and Monster Builder too).

That is not dead which may eternal lie
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 15, 2012 - 2:19PM #17
Litmus
Date Joined: May 7, 2011
Posts: 394

Jan 15, 2012 -- 11:43AM, Rakashamano wrote:

Is 5e really that far out? I'm in the same boat this guy is in but i assumed it would be sooner. I guess I'll check out this red box and subscribe.



I'm betting that they're aiming to have 5e products on the shelves for Xmas 2012.  They're already far enough along to have 'friends and family' playtesting underway and open playtesting is starting in Spring.  It would be madness to announce a new edition more than a year ahead - pretty sure they see a major drop-off in sales as soon as everyone knows that a new edition is out soon.

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1 year ago  ::  Jan 15, 2012 - 3:18PM #18
LordofKhyber
Date Joined: Jul 29, 2009
Posts: 1,023

Jan 15, 2012 -- 2:19PM, Litmus wrote:

Jan 15, 2012 -- 11:43AM, Rakashamano wrote:

Is 5e really that far out? I'm in the same boat this guy is in but i assumed it would be sooner. I guess I'll check out this red box and subscribe.



I'm betting that they're aiming to have 5e products on the shelves for Xmas 2012.  They're already far enough along to have 'friends and family' playtesting underway and open playtesting is starting in Spring.  It would be madness to announce a new edition more than a year ahead - pretty sure they see a major drop-off in sales as soon as everyone knows that a new edition is out soon.





This is what I've been thinking too. People predicting a year and a half left with 4E are going to be really disappointed.

Things that 5E needs to do:
-Make the use of battlemaps/miniatures the default.
-Make healing fun, magical AND non-magical needs to be an option. Long live the Warlord!
-Make magic items feel magic/mythical. I don't want a dagger +1, I want STING.
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 15, 2012 - 4:48PM #19
M4kitsu
Date Joined: Oct 22, 2007
Posts: 847
If the new edition is a year or less away, then it's going to be an unmitigated disaster and a huge mess. This crowd-sourced design idea they're trying needs minimum 18 months to bear fruit, and unless Cook is even more arrogant than I think he is, Wizards should know that. 

My bet is GenCon 2013, at earliest. 2014 would be better. 
-m4ki; one down, one to go

"Retro is not new.
Retro-fit is not new."

--Seeker95,
on why I won't be playing DDN


DDN Metrics (0-10) | enthusiasm: 1 | confidence in design: -3 | desire to play: 0 | Sticking with 4e?: Yep. | Better Options: IKRPG Mk II


The Five Things D&D Next Absolutely Must Not Do: Show

1. Imbalanced gameplay. Any and all characters must be able to contribute equally both in combat and out of combat at all levels of play. If the Fighters are linear and the Wizards quadratic, I walk.
2. Hardcore simulationist approach. D&D is a game about heroic fantasy. I'm weak and useless enough in real life; I play RPGs for a change of pace. If the only reason a rule exists is because "that's how it's supposed to be", I walk. I don't want a game that "simulates" real life, I want a game that simulates heroic fantasy.
3. Worshipping at false idols (AKA Sacred Cows). If the only reason a rule exists is "it's always been that way", I walk. Now to be clear, I have no problem with some things not changing; my issue is with retaining bad idea simply for the sake of nostalgia.
4. DM vs. players. If the game encourages "gotcha!" moments or treats the DM and players as enemies, adversaries, or problems to be overcome, I walk.
5. Rules for the sake of rules. The only thing I want rules for is the things I can't do sitting around a table with my friends. If the rules try to step on my ability to roleplay the character I want to roleplay, I walk. Furthermore, the rules serve to facilitate gameplay, not to simulate the world.

NOTE: Items in red have been violated.


Chris Perkins' DM Survival Tips: Show

1. When in doubt, wing it.
2. Keep the story moving. Go with the flow.
3. Sometimes things make the best characters.
4. Always give players lots of things to do.
5. Wherever possible, say ‘yes.’
6. Cheating is largely unnecessary.
7. Don't be afraid to give the characters a fun new toy.
8. Don't get in the way of a good players exchange.
9. Avoid talking too much.
10. Save some details for later.
11. Be transparent.
12. Don't show all your cards.

Words to live by.


Quotes From People Smarter Than Me: Show

"Essentials zigged, when I wanted to continue zagging..." -Foxface on Essentials

"Servicing a diverse fan base with an RPG ruleset - far from being the mandate for 'open design space' and a cavalier attitude towards balance - requires creating a system that /works/, with minimal fuss, for a wide variety of play styles, not just from one group to the next, but at the same table." -Tony_Vargas on design

"Mearls' and Cook's stated intent to produce an edition that fans of all previous editions (and Pathfinder) will like more than their current favourite edition is laudable. But it is also, IMO, completely unrealistic. It's like people who pray for world peace: I might share their overall aims, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for them to succeed. When they talk in vague terms about what they'd like to do in this new edition, I mostly find myself thinking 'hey, that sounds cool, assuming they can pull it off', but almost every time they've said something specific about actual mechanics, I've found myself wincing and shaking my head in disbelief and/or disgust, either straight away or after thinking about the obvious implications for half a minute." -Duskweaver on D&D Next
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 15, 2012 - 8:55PM #20
Stryke-Man
Date Joined: May 26, 2011
Posts: 7

Jan 15, 2012 -- 1:27AM, TheBozz wrote:

 My advice is never fudge a die roll.  Instead if you find your PCs are breezing through encounters realize you are either not building tough enough encounters to challenge the group or not using good enough monster tactics to challenge the group.  Either reevaluate your encounter tactics to play creatures with a decent intelligence more intelligently or just up your standard encounter level by 1.  So if they are breezing through your encounters that are designed as the same level as the PCs are.  Make the encounters PC level +1 and continue adjusting until you find the right challenge level.  PCs that find the DM is fudging critical hits against the PCs will not be too happy with said DM.  PCs that find the DM is removing the challenge from fudging away critical hits will also not perceive any real threat, and probably get more upset at the DM if he ever does TPK the party.  On the side of monster tactics if you find you are not challenging the PCs because of poor tactics quit having your intelligent monsters just stand there and swing at the defender.  Make your ranged monsters attack any "squishy" target in range without cover instead of plunking arrows at the defender.  Start using positioning to get combat advantage.  Use your encounter powers.  The PCs will generally appreciate being challenged by the challenge put infront of them.  I'm not saying you can't use "easy" encounters just realize if the PCs are breezing through encounters it is probably something you are doing other than just rolling poorly.  




This is fair enough criticism for what I typed.  I should have made it clear that fudging is something you should only rarely do.  In extreme circumstances saving a TPK of a group that is at a critical juncture of quest is something that a DM should do if possible if he can do it with stealth.  Lose a PC or two?  Possible, have all but a couple PCs go unconcious?  Sure.  Allow a TPK of fairly inexperienced group of newbies because they are just learning and made some poor choices?  To be avoided if possible.  And if your limited help isn't enough, go back and have everyone reroll new characters.

My main point with that was on occassion be willing not to be boxed in and refuse to help a well run (or learning) group of PCs get past a bout of bad luck, or your own lack of experience running a game.  If it's not the party's fault don't punish them for it.  Try and let them have fun,  if they are being stupid, let them reroll a new character.  Yes some encounters will be easy, others harder.  Luck does play a roll, but you dont always have to let an unfortunate choice of an encounter by the DM leave a bad taste in the player's mouth.  At critical times a DM can choose to "save" the party or fudge things to make it interesting enough to add a real threat of PC death.  At least he can if the players really believe that they are ones responsible for saving themselves.  And let's face it ultimately they are.  If they are playing like a idiot and ignoring good advice they deserve their fate.  Thoughtful, coachable players will usually bail themselves out, IF given a chance to do so.

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