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1 year ago ::
Jan 13, 2012 - 5:55PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Dec 18, 2010
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Hi all, I recently picked up the D&D 'Red Box' starter set and I plan to start playing D&D with a group of my friends who, like myself have never played the game. We are going to play through the content provided in the Red Box which I believe gets you to level 2. Anyway I saw the D&DI subscription and thought that looked great so I grabbed it for 1 month. I noticed that the Character builder allows for much more races and classes than is included in the Red Box (I assume I just get these with other products I can buy) but with the classes that are in the Red Box there were a few differences (such as powers). I was wondering should I stick with the character creation in the Red Box or the D&DI character builder and would it matter if we choose some classes that aren't included in the Red Box even if we didn't have the approproiate books to go with.
I am also thinking I will play DM so is there any advice for a first time DM and also any advice for a DM who also wants to play a PC (not at the same time if necessary).
Lastly do you guys have any advice at all for a group beginners who are diving right into D&D with no prior experience?
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1 year ago ::
Jan 13, 2012 - 7:41PM
#2
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Welcome! Welcome, friend! Come on in, there's room for all!
RED BOX is an excellent way to get familiar with the general manner of the D&D Roleplaying Game (RPG).
Play through the material provided, don't worry about the differenceswith DDI Character Builder.
To expand into Mainstream 4e D&D RPG, you'll need to acquire regular game manuals.
Start with Player Handbooks (PHBs) 1, 2, & 3 or the Heroes of ... manuals (Essentials line)
Whoever is doing the dungeonmastering (DM) also known as the gamemaster (GM) , might like to acquire the Dungeon Master Guides.
Remember, you don't have to get all of it at one time, grow into the game. Acquire manuals when you feel you are ready to expand.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 13, 2012 - 8:05PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Oct 22, 2007
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You picked a heck of a time to get into this hobby...
The best answers and advice I can give, in brief, are:
1. Personally, I would skip the Red Box. It does a fairly poor job of being D&D. If you don't have or can't get something else, it'll suffice, but as soon as you're able, I would buy the Rules Compendium and your choice of Heroes of the Fallen Kingdom and Heroes of the Forgotten Lands. Those will be useful for everyone at your table. For you, I would also purchase the DM's Kit, and the Dungeon Master's Guide when you can. DMG II is optional; you can save it for later.
Be aware that the softcover books labelled as "Essentials" are a sub-line to the hardcover books. The two lines are perfectly compatible with each other, but there are things in each that work differently. I personally do not like the Essentials books in the least, but they ARE newbie-friendly. If you're feeling adventurous, ambitious, or perhaps a little foolhardy and headstrong, skip the "Essentials" books entirely (except the Rules Compendium--that one is unquestionably worth getting, as it's the most-complete, most-current version of the main rules available in print) and focus on the hardbacks instead.
Be aware that the game has undergone massive, massive errata since its release. The DDI character creator and DDI Compendium are updated automatically as errata are released, so they are always the most current version of the rules.
You'll also need some monsters to throw at your players. Take your pick of Monster Manual I, II, and III, and the Monster Vault. Any of them would work fine.
2. Regarding DDI, get ahold of a copy of the Rules Compendium and one of the DM's books before you make that call. The Red Box/Heroes of the... character creation rules are much simpler than the full rules that many classes in DDI (particularly the older classes). If you start with the simpler rules, be prepared for a bit of a shock if/when you transition to using an older class.
That said, ALL characters, no matter their source, are compatible with one another, and can coexist in the same game without issue.
3. DM Advice: First, never do anything just because someone said to--this is the Internet; fact-check anything you learn like you would writing a research paper. Second, ignore the impression of how to play that the rulebooks give you. Their presentation is extremely poor and, I think, intrinsically flawed (but remember the first thing I said). Third, learn the name Chris Perkins: read his "The Dungeon Master Experience" column on the website (over Christmas they released a compilation of all the DMXP articles from 2011, that's a good place to start), and find on Youtube the videos of him running D&D games--as "how to be an awesome DM" rolemodels go, Perkins is a good place to start.
Remember above all: D&D is a roleplaying game. It's a game about cooperative storytelling. It's not about loot, it's not about encounter after encounter, it's not about treasure, it's not about XP. It has all of those things, yes, but the core of the game is the story. Always has been, always will be. And I pity all of the people out there who never have and never will figure this out. Don't be one of them.
Oh, and Chandler's Law is a wonderful tool for a DM. Use it well.
4. New Group Advice: Find your own path. There is no "right" way to play D&D, except the way that's right for your group. Take the time to find that, and NEVER do anything simply because you think you have to. Explore, learn, enjoy. Play.
And, feel free to drop me a PM anytime. Questions, comments, advice, whatever. I'm always happy to help.
-m4ki; one down, one to go "Retro is not new.
Retro-fit is not new."
--Seeker95,
on why I won't be playing DDN
| DDN Metrics (0-10) | enthusiasm: 1 | confidence in design: -3 | desire to play: 0 | Sticking with 4e?: Yep. | Better Options: IKRPG Mk II |
The Five Things D&D Next Absolutely Must Not Do:
Show
1. Imbalanced gameplay. Any and all characters must be able to contribute equally both in combat and out of combat at all levels of play. If the Fighters are linear and the Wizards quadratic, I walk.
2. Hardcore simulationist approach. D&D is a game about heroic fantasy. I'm weak and useless enough in real life; I play RPGs for a change of pace. If the only reason a rule exists is because "that's how it's supposed to be", I walk. I don't want a game that "simulates" real life, I want a game that simulates heroic fantasy.
3. Worshipping at false idols (AKA Sacred Cows). If the only reason a rule exists is "it's always been that way", I walk. Now to be clear, I have no problem with some things not changing; my issue is with retaining bad idea simply for the sake of nostalgia.
4. DM vs. players. If the game encourages "gotcha!" moments or treats the DM and players as enemies, adversaries, or problems to be overcome, I walk.
5. Rules for the sake of rules. The only thing I want rules for is the things I can't do sitting around a table with my friends. If the rules try to step on my ability to roleplay the character I want to roleplay, I walk. Furthermore, the rules serve to facilitate gameplay, not to simulate the world.
NOTE: Items in red have been violated.
Chris Perkins' DM Survival Tips:
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1. When in doubt, wing it.
2. Keep the story moving. Go with the flow.
3. Sometimes things make the best characters.
4. Always give players lots of things to do.
5. Wherever possible, say ‘yes.’
6. Cheating is largely unnecessary.
7. Don't be afraid to give the characters a fun new toy.
8. Don't get in the way of a good players exchange.
9. Avoid talking too much.
10. Save some details for later.
11. Be transparent.
12. Don't show all your cards.
Words to live by.
Quotes From People Smarter Than Me:
Show
"Essentials zigged, when I wanted to continue zagging..." -Foxface on Essentials
"Servicing a diverse fan base with an RPG ruleset - far from being the mandate for 'open design space' and a cavalier attitude towards balance - requires creating a system that /works/, with minimal fuss, for a wide variety of play styles, not just from one group to the next, but at the same table." -Tony_Vargas on design
"Mearls' and Cook's stated intent to produce an edition that fans of all previous editions (and Pathfinder) will like more than their current favourite edition is laudable. But it is also, IMO, completely unrealistic. It's like people who pray for world peace: I might share their overall aims, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for them to succeed. When they talk in vague terms about what they'd like to do in this new edition, I mostly find myself thinking 'hey, that sounds cool, assuming they can pull it off', but almost every time they've said something specific about actual mechanics, I've found myself wincing and shaking my head in disbelief and/or disgust, either straight away or after thinking about the obvious implications for half a minute." -Duskweaver on D&D Next
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1 year ago ::
Jan 13, 2012 - 9:55PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Dec 18, 2010
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Thanks this is all very helpful. I heard e5 is being released this year so (assuming all the e4 books are incompatible with e5) I may hold off on buying many e4 stuff and rather just try squeeze as much as I can out of stuff I can find online.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 14, 2012 - 6:20AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Mar 16, 2011
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Thanks this is all very helpful. I heard e5 is being released this year so (assuming all the e4 books are incompatible with e5) I may hold off on buying many e4 stuff and rather just try squeeze as much as I can out of stuff I can find online.
5e will be another 1-2 years yet at least.
I'd recommend the Essentials 'Heroes of...' and the Essentials DM's Kit. Both are quite cheap and will last you a year or so.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 14, 2012 - 7:06AM
#6
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I was wondering should I stick with the character creation in the Red Box or the D&DI character builder and would it matter if we choose some classes that aren't included in the Red Box even if we didn't have the approproiate books to go with.
I am also thinking I will play DM so is there any advice for a first time DM and also any advice for a DM who also wants to play a PC (not at the same time if necessary).
Lastly do you guys have any advice at all for a group beginners who are diving right into D&D with no prior experience?
to get the most of your money, if you want to dm, the dm kit is excellent
the red box pcs can be converted to heroes books using the link below; i also linked the page that has the document on it at the bottom. you wouldnt necessarily need to buy the books, you could just use the character builder and read class info off of the compendium
wizards.custhelp.com/ci/fattach/get/8096...
wizards.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/...
once you have these, the monster vault would be a good pick. both the dm kit and monster vault have good adventures for yalls levels
so to review, dm kit, check the document and update on character builder, monster vault
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1 year ago ::
Jan 14, 2012 - 8:55AM
#7
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Due to the current mess that is the 4e product line, you'll get different advice from everyone that posts here. Some of it won't be very good. I'd stick with the advice from the poster above me and ignore any advice further up the thread that conflicts with that. You've made smart choice in getting a DDI sub and avoiding buying too many extra products is wise at this point too. I doubt 5e is much more than a year away - Christmas 2012 wouldn't be a crazy guess. For the character builder, definitely use it from the start. I'd suggest using the 'new' button initially (as opposed to 'custom'). This gives you a much simpler character creation process and the info that you get on the character sheet will be helpful for learning the rules. Re. advice for a first time DM:
- the DM should avoid playing a PC at the same time. DMing is the most fun job at the table - you won't miss having a PC.
- play through a couple of small encounters by yourself before you run a game. Start with the solo adventure in the red box and then run a few extra encounters with a couple of PCs and a few monsters. You'll learn the rules much, much more effectively this way and you'll be a lot more confident when it comes time to run your first game.
- stay relaxed during the game and don't stress if you screw things up from time to time. Remember it's not you vs. the players.
- visit the 'What's a DM to Do?' forum and ask for help with anything that you struggle with prepping for your games or running them. You'll get lots of friendly advice over there from some very experienced DMs.
Good luck!
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1 year ago ::
Jan 14, 2012 - 9:52AM
#8
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thanks. keep in mind i love all 4e, its just my suggestions will give you the most bang for your buck. the products i mention are more than just books, they have adventures, tokens for monsters, maps, etc
once you have digested those products you can expand. theres tons of good books. i would suggest making the rules compendium the next book you buy. by that time you would also likely be inspired enough to expand your own campaign ideas. a campaign setting can be helpful. neverwinter campaign setting would be a good purchase-its level appropriate and it has updated monster statistics
for magic items, i would just use the online compendium; its comprehensive and youre already paying for it
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1 year ago ::
Jan 14, 2012 - 11:42PM
#9
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Date Joined:
May 26, 2011
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I would agree with generally not having a PC if you are running a game, at least until you get some experience under your belt. The only time I do is when the party needs a role filled (such as a controller, defender, leader, etc) and it is a small group that cannot fill all the needs. But never, ever let an NPC trump the PCs. Let the player characters make the decisions and only volunteer RP contributions if drafted by the PCs. I usually make NPCs within the party shy, mute or something else like that so they can stay in the background and let the PCs shine.
The easiest thing in the world for a DM to do is railroad the party into a particular decision. Always, always give them at least the illusion of free will. If they want to ignore your plot hooks and explore the world finding random, unplanned encounters, let them. A good DM eventually learns how to create situations that will successfully encourage PCs into taking the "proper" (ie DM planned plot hook) path. If a party feels that they are being led around by the DM yanking them by their ears the game loses a lot of its mystery and excitement.
It is tough sometimes starting out to find the proper balance for encounters. Make them to hard and players get frustrated, make them to easy and they get bored and lose interest.
When you blow a rule, admit it, hopefully as soon as possible and apologize. Most of the time players will know it before you do and resent it if you deny it. That said don't let the players yank control of the game and dictate how things will go. Be firm, but fair, be willing to try and balance an incorrect ruling if possible during combat or give them a bonus after to compensate. The most fun games for everyone is when RP and combat is challenging, but rewarding. I actually have more fun creating the world and letting the players flesh it out as they stumble through it seeing some of the crazy ideas and plans they come up with as they advance.
The DM/PC relationship is not antagonisitic, but symbiotic. neither has rewarding fun without the other and both are helping the other enjoy the game in their own individual way. Remember the DM is a narrator, or a director of the film that unfolds as the PCs wander through it.
It sounds like you are off to a good start because you want to make it fun for both them and yourself. Good luck and find out exactly what works for you and your group by trying different things!
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1 year ago ::
Jan 14, 2012 - 11:51PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Apr 16, 2009
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One thing I'll disagree with from earlier advice: the list of monster books for the DM.
FIRST, get Monster Vault.
After that, if you want, get your choice (one or both) of Monster Manual 3 or the Dark Sun Creature Catalog.
If that still isn't enough, get Monster Manual 2 but recognise that it's of lower quality. (But don't you have a DDI account for full Online Compendium access before you get to here?)
And if you really want a complete collection of dead-tree 4E books, finally get Monster Manual 1 but don't bother opening it. It was a first try at getting the balance between PCs and monsters right and, well, they missed. They didn't get it right until MM3. And then Monster Vault redoes a lot of the creatures in MM1.
"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
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