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1 year ago ::
Feb 01, 2012 - 2:41AM
#41
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Date Joined:
Oct 22, 2007
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I have no idea what you all are talking about describing "classic" halflings the way you all are. The idea of athletic, attractive halflings isn't exactly new
-m4ki; one down, one to go "Retro is not new.
Retro-fit is not new."
--Seeker95,
on why I won't be playing DDN
| DDN Metrics (0-10) | enthusiasm: 1 | confidence in design: -3 | desire to play: 0 | Sticking with 4e?: Yep. | Better Options: IKRPG Mk II |
The Five Things D&D Next Absolutely Must Not Do:
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1. Imbalanced gameplay. Any and all characters must be able to contribute equally both in combat and out of combat at all levels of play. If the Fighters are linear and the Wizards quadratic, I walk.
2. Hardcore simulationist approach. D&D is a game about heroic fantasy. I'm weak and useless enough in real life; I play RPGs for a change of pace. If the only reason a rule exists is because "that's how it's supposed to be", I walk. I don't want a game that "simulates" real life, I want a game that simulates heroic fantasy.
3. Worshipping at false idols (AKA Sacred Cows). If the only reason a rule exists is "it's always been that way", I walk. Now to be clear, I have no problem with some things not changing; my issue is with retaining bad idea simply for the sake of nostalgia.
4. DM vs. players. If the game encourages "gotcha!" moments or treats the DM and players as enemies, adversaries, or problems to be overcome, I walk.
5. Rules for the sake of rules. The only thing I want rules for is the things I can't do sitting around a table with my friends. If the rules try to step on my ability to roleplay the character I want to roleplay, I walk. Furthermore, the rules serve to facilitate gameplay, not to simulate the world.
NOTE: Items in red have been violated.
Chris Perkins' DM Survival Tips:
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1. When in doubt, wing it.
2. Keep the story moving. Go with the flow.
3. Sometimes things make the best characters.
4. Always give players lots of things to do.
5. Wherever possible, say ‘yes.’
6. Cheating is largely unnecessary.
7. Don't be afraid to give the characters a fun new toy.
8. Don't get in the way of a good players exchange.
9. Avoid talking too much.
10. Save some details for later.
11. Be transparent.
12. Don't show all your cards.
Words to live by.
Quotes From People Smarter Than Me:
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"Essentials zigged, when I wanted to continue zagging..." -Foxface on Essentials
"Servicing a diverse fan base with an RPG ruleset - far from being the mandate for 'open design space' and a cavalier attitude towards balance - requires creating a system that /works/, with minimal fuss, for a wide variety of play styles, not just from one group to the next, but at the same table." -Tony_Vargas on design
"Mearls' and Cook's stated intent to produce an edition that fans of all previous editions (and Pathfinder) will like more than their current favourite edition is laudable. But it is also, IMO, completely unrealistic. It's like people who pray for world peace: I might share their overall aims, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for them to succeed. When they talk in vague terms about what they'd like to do in this new edition, I mostly find myself thinking 'hey, that sounds cool, assuming they can pull it off', but almost every time they've said something specific about actual mechanics, I've found myself wincing and shaking my head in disbelief and/or disgust, either straight away or after thinking about the obvious implications for half a minute." -Duskweaver on D&D Next
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1 year ago ::
Feb 01, 2012 - 12:42PM
#42
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Date Joined:
Aug 25, 2010
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I think the question of whether chubby halflings are or are not classic or original centers on one question. Was there something understandable as a halfling in culture or folklore before Tolkien's hobbit? His jumping off point for the hobbit as I understand it was the word hobytlan, meaning hole-dwellers. How much he may have borrowed from something else I can't really say to be honest. Unless there is some other archetype pre-dating his storytelling I would say his description is the classic one. Physical fitness and adventuring do seem to go hand-in-hand however.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 01, 2012 - 2:41PM
#43
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Especially in light of the mainstreaming of Tolkien via the new LotR and Hobbit films, D&D should use Tolkien hobbits as the core model for halflings (known as hobbits in OD&D before the copyright furies descended). In my last large game, I had mostly players new to D&D, and one said they wanted to "play a hobbit like Frodo or Bilbo."
Note also that not all hobbits were plump and unadventurous, but that is one archetype of them.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 02, 2012 - 8:59AM
#44
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2003
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I have no idea what you all are talking about describing "classic" halflings the way you all are.
The idea of athletic, attractive halflings isn't exactly new
Awesome pic from a great comic series. But it is called "Elf Quest", which makes her an elf, a small elf, but an elf none the less.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 03, 2012 - 6:18AM
#45
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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I think the question of whether chubby halflings are or are not classic or original centers on one question. Was there something understandable as a halfling in culture or folklore before Tolkien's hobbit? His jumping off point for the hobbit as I understand it was the word hobytlan, meaning hole-dwellers. How much he may have borrowed from something else I can't really say to be honest. Unless there is some other archetype pre-dating his storytelling I would say his description is the classic one. Physical fitness and adventuring do seem to go hand-in-hand however.
The idea of of little people is fairly old the details of implementation varies... Tolkein patterned his after rural country english folk. There is often a fey connection in legend and myth, the D&D gnome seems to cover that niche.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 03, 2012 - 11:06PM
#46
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Date Joined:
Apr 16, 2009
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I have no idea what you all are talking about describing "classic" halflings the way you all are.
The idea of athletic, attractive halflings isn't exactly new
1) She's an elf, not a halfling. But from a world of rather short elves.
2) Her mate is an elf with some wolf ancestry. Her mate's animal companion (as of the time of that picture) is a wolf with some elf ancestry.
"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
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1 year ago ::
Feb 04, 2012 - 5:38AM
#47
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I approve of a return to halflings with large hairy shoeless feet and an appetite larger than is, strictly speaking, healthy. Not to say that ALL halflings should be overweight but the average halfling should be on the chubby side.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 04, 2012 - 10:10AM
#48
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Date Joined:
Apr 16, 2009
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I approve of a return to halflings with large hairy shoeless feet and an appetite larger than is, strictly speaking, healthy. Not to say that ALL halflings should be overweight but the average halfling should be on the chubby side.
But remember that the average PC is not average by pretty much any other relevant standard.
For example, an average PC 4E Fighter (level 1), or any other Str-primary character with Athletics training, is probably in the upper half of Olympic athletes in strength-based events. One with Str 20 is challenging real-world records; one who also takes Skill Focus: Athletics is breaking them.
(Yes, the average level-1 Wizard is probably about average at strength-based events; who cares?)
"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
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1 year ago ::
Feb 10, 2012 - 5:52AM
#49
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Of course the PCs aren't the average example of their races... but the average is still the starting point.
Yes, I expect fighters with above average srength to be stronger than average (and thusly pictured as such). A high strength does not mean 'athletic build' though (just take a look at strongman competitors). A halfling with average physical attributes should be close to the average shape of a halfling. Very few PCs (at least the physically inclines ones) are going to be included in that group... but it is a sliding scale... the further they are from average stats the less like the average build they will be.
I would assume that a world champion weightlifter represented in game terms would have max racial strength for a human and whatever feats allows him to be better at lifting weights (such as skill focus: athletics). Having these things doesn't make your character better than them it makes them the same as them. Not having all of these things makes your PC worse than them. Athletes like these are real world examples of min-maxing... and your character isn't going to compete unless they are slao min-maxed for the same purpose. Lets face it... a fighter min-maxed for weightlifting probably isn't the best adventurer.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 10, 2012 - 6:20AM
#50
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As someone noted earlier; certain races belong in certain worlds. Hobbits belong in Arda. I think the new halflings more faithfully represent what the word means, a half grown person. In the case of D&D the default has always been humancentric, thus halflings are half grown humans in apprearance, with the same proportions. I would not be opposed to optional rules that allow for hobbit-like halflings, no more than I would be opposed to variations of any other race (tinker gnomes in Krynn), but I think the default should remain as it has been for over a decade now.
Kalex the Omen Dungeonmaster Extraordinaire Concerning Player Rules Bias
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Gaining victory through rules bias is a hollow victory and they know it.
The argument goes, that some idiot at the table might claim that because there is a "default" that is the only true way to play D&D. An idiotic misconception that should be quite easy to disprove just by reading the rules, coming to these forums, or sending a quick note off to Customer Support and sharing the inevitable response with the group. BTW, I'm not just talking about Next when I say this. Of course, D&D has always been this way since at least the late 70's when I began playing.
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