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1 year ago ::
Jan 11, 2012 - 12:11PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Feb 18, 2005
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I entirely miss the ability for my wizard/spell caster to have the ability to overcome nearly any obstacle with the correct amount of preperation and R&D. But I enjoyed giving melee characters "abilities" in 4e. In 4e its the same spells over and over again for casters with no chance for those wow moments and such. Me and my players felt very limited in what our spellcasters could "do" in any single day.
It forced me and my players to think outside of the box/rules to come up with interesting solutions for various problems and obstacles. My players used to do research and compile ideas and spells to come up with nearly anything imaginable. 4e took all of that away from us and rituals are entirely lackluster and easily forgotten about.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 11, 2012 - 12:18PM
#2
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- Forum Guide
- Hero Craftsman Gold Medalist
- Master Dungeon Master
Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2005
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I entirely miss the ability for my wizard/spell caster to have the ability to overcome nearly any obstacle with the correct amount of preperation and R&D.
Ugh. No thanks. I don't want one class who can defeat any obstacle with enough time. There's always ways to get time. Time in a RPG is cheap. It's a very poor limitation on character power and a terrible way to force character balance.
Not every character should be able to do every act. D&D is (or should be) a game about a team of equals, not a game of Gandalf and the folks who get to be a hero only while Gandalf is resurrecting.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 11, 2012 - 12:21PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Oct 12, 2005
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I entirely miss the ability for my wizard/spell caster to have the ability to overcome nearly any obstacle with the correct amount of preperation and R&D. But I enjoyed giving melee characters "abilities" in 4e. In 4e its the same spells over and over again for casters with no chance for those wow moments and such. Me and my players felt very limited in what our spellcasters could "do" in any single day.
It forced me and my players to think outside of the box/rules to come up with interesting solutions for various problems and obstacles. My players used to do research and compile ideas and spells to come up with nearly anything imaginable. 4e took all of that away from us and rituals are entirely lackluster and easily forgotten about.
Could the solution in part be a better implemented (and more robust) ritual system that has guidelines on research for spells and a faster casting speed - with wizards perhaps just having a better "knack" at it.
This way a group wouldn't have to suffer for not having a caster in the group (since they could still use rituals with some effort), it could allow for a wider range of effects than what we have now, and "caster" classes could still have some options - perhaps starting with rituals, getting free rituals, or reduced componet cost (i.e. able to cast one ritual a day for free)
Welcome to ZomboniLand - My D&D Blog http://zomboniland.blogspot.com/
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1 year ago ::
Jan 11, 2012 - 12:25PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jun 30, 2008
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I entirely miss the ability for my wizard/spell caster to have the ability to overcome nearly any obstacle with the correct amount of preperation and R&D.
Taking that away is what some of us like best about 4E. Removing that makes sure all players contribute instead of the spellcaster doing everyone's job better than they can. Why be a thief if the wizard can simply teleport every one into the locked room or make everyone silent and invisible for the next hour or make a giant hole in the wall they all walk through etc..
There are a lot of good reasons to bring back spell lists, but that is not one of them.
my handbooks & builds
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1 year ago ::
Jan 11, 2012 - 12:27PM
#5
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I entirely miss the ability for my wizard/spell caster to have the ability to overcome nearly any obstacle with the correct amount of preperation and R&D.
Taking that away is what some of us like best about 4E. Removing that makes sure all players contribute instead of the spellcaster doing everyone's job better than they can. Why be a thief if the wizard can simply teleport every one into the locked room or make everyone silent and invisible for the next hour or make a giant hole in the wall they all walk through etc..
There are a lot of good reasons to bring back spell lists, but that is not one of them.
Hear hear.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 11, 2012 - 12:28PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Apr 24, 2004
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I entirely miss the ability for my wizard/spell caster to have the ability to overcome nearly any obstacle with the correct amount of preperation and R&D.
Ugh. No thanks. I don't want one class who can defeat any obstacle with enough time. There's always ways to get time. Time in a RPG is cheap. It's a very poor limitation on character power and a terrible way to force character balance.
Not every character should be able to do every act. D&D is (or should be) a game about a team of equals, not a game of Gandalf and the folks who get to be a hero only while Gandalf is resurrecting.
Shock of shocks, I agree with wrecan. While I have fond memories of my half-optimized Arcane Trickster completely outclassing my friends' minmaxed warrior-types, we really don't need to go back to the days of Almighty Wizards or CoDzilla.
Rhymes with Bruce
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1 year ago ::
Jan 11, 2012 - 12:28PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jul 22, 2008
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Two thumbs up to going back to spell lists in general. Also develop lists of martial powers and what not for those who are not spell casters. Ki power lists for others. Etc.
Two thumbs down to reviving the uber twink spell casters who could conquer all given enough time. That was one of the worst aspects of previous iterations of the game.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 11, 2012 - 12:31PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Mar 16, 2011
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I entirely miss the ability for my wizard/spell caster to have the ability to overcome nearly any obstacle with the correct amount of preperation and R&D.
I'd prefer to see no daily spells at all. It's just a headache for the DM and players to manage extended rests.
And I don't think casters should be more powerful than any other class. Different, definitely, but not stronger.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 11, 2012 - 12:31PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Dec 25, 2009
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Two thumbs up to going back to spell lists in general. Also develop lists of martial powers and what not for those who are not spell casters. Ki power lists for others. Etc.
Two thumbs down to reviving the uber twink spell casters who could conquer all given enough time. That was one of the worst aspects of previous iterations of the game.
Agreed.
I also loved the previous edition feel of a wizard whose power level was based on his preparation; if you picked the right spells for the right situation, you were totally awesome, and if you picked the wrong ones, you were totally useless. This is bad for balance; however, it is theoretically possible to give the same feeling (prep = power) with a much lower delta, resulting in a wizard who ranges from 'pretty good' to 'pretty great' without totally overshadowing every other party member all the time (it's ok if it happens some of the time, because the wizard will himself be totally overshadowed some of the time; that's what giving everyone the spotlight is all about).
The difference between madness and genius is determined only by degrees of success.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 11, 2012 - 12:35PM
#10
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I for one don't want to go back to the "good old days" where the person playing the wizard would do nothing for a few rounds, then spend one to three rounds completely changing the battlefield, then go read a book or listen to music while the rest of the group finished mopping up the stuff that was left so he would not waste spells.
The concept of at-will abilities means that people worked as a group, rather than one or two characters having most of the power and everyone else just being their clean up crew. The game got a lot better when it stopped supporting these "I am better than you" alpha players.
My thoughts on what works and what doesn't in D&D and how D&D Next may benefit are detailed on my blog, Vorpal Thoughts.
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