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I don't think it is 4e itself, or necessarily, even the designers. Design is usually the vision of the leadership, or manipulated by it. The language used in the end, that really falls squarely on the shoulders of the marketing team or producer. 

No, I don't have any insider knowledge of how WoTC runs their products from conception to finish. My statements may be entirely false, but, after having a solid run in corporate land for awhile, it is what I would imagine has taken place.

That said, whoever there is managing, producing, creating and writing material, or even conceptualizing for that fact, has to have enthusiasm! They undeniably need to fully love and understand their product, especially from the 10,000 foot view of today's market and economy. Not to mention, as I have said, the player base in general has changed. 

Want to know what my first "computer" game looked like? Go read the players guide to the original red box. That was D&D style game on the Apple II somewhere around 1980. No, I don't remember the name of it or who actually made it, I just remember playing it. It had very simplistic if-and-else-choose statements and directions. Spent hours playing it. Of course, it took hours for it to spin through those 5 inch floppy drives anyway...lol. Can't imagine any kid of modern society being able to withstand the turtle pace of playing it and waiting for the drives to read the next moves.

I have rambled and digressed enough. I believe that WoTC is trying to do the right thing. I just hope they REALLY remember what was so special about D&D 30 years ago because it sure wasn't the rule set or mechanics. It was pure imagination and possibilities.

--JD
 

Jan 11, 2012 -- 5:48PM, ShakaUVM wrote:

I bought the 4e Red Book solely because of the good memories I had of the original one.

It was terrible, though. Instead of a "choose your own adventure" solo game, it had a "choose your own character" roundabout way of doing character generation.

And it was incredibly dumbed down.

Do you:
A) Want to play a mystical character? (Go to "Wizard")
B) Want to play a tough swordy guy? (Go to "Fighter")
C) Play a sneaky swordy guy? (Go to "Rogue")
D) Play a spiritual dude? (Go to "cleric")

Ugh. Was worthless.

Jan 12, 2012 -- 5:07AM, lmartin4020 wrote:

Imagination... Now there's a concept...

Just last night as we all sat around the table, our DM described the room in detail that we had just entered. We walked through a bit, looked through the bookshelf, and then asked about an item in the room that the DM had mentioned- specifically where it was again.

He looked at the finely crafted map that had come with the adventure and after a few seconds, pointed to a blank spot on the map and said "it would be right about here. Just use your imagination (which with him and I being the only two in out group that is over 35 and have played earlier versions of D&D, this is kind of an inside joke between the both of us).

Our group consists of 3 kids under the age of 13, one late teen, one early twenties, and then us. No one in our group has any D&D experience of over 9 months except for the DM and me. When the word imagination is used, they all look like they may hurt themselves trying.

I myself enjoy using maps and miniatures (as they aid me in a tactical sense), but I remember when it was all imagination and the only visual aid was a sketched out map that the DM might use to help keep him on track pushing us through the dungeon.

I have to say that I agree with the OP. Bring back the imagination. I admit, I have no ideas to contribute in the way of how to do that, but that's what developers get paid for. 

I think you may have struck things to the core.  If Wizards wants to reach out to the old grognards like they seem to say, the feel is how they need to do it.  I'm also on the list of people who bought the 4e Red Box hoping for something...  I wasn't personally dissapointed, because my expectations of anything related to 4e were at that point incredably low, but at the same time it failed to "wow" the way I think it had hoped to.

And, I would argue, bringing back the old FEEL (more than the old mechanics) might help D&D with the younger crowd as well: the more D&D tries to sell itself like a videogame, the more members of the "video games" generation are going to say "Why am I not just playing my favorite video game?".  If D&D differentiates itself from those, makes itself (as it should be) an experience that is inherantly different from that found in digital media, then it has a niche.

Some may have argued that the imagination has atrophied in the younger generation, that being a passive consumer of media rather than a participant is the wave of the future.  I think that the imagination has simply been hidden.  It takes a little time and skill to bring it out, but I feel young people who give a D&D of the imagination a try, because (not in spite of the fact) it is something different.

The problem for the marketers is, of course, it takes a little while and a good atmosphere for someone to engage -- they aren't going to see results in five minutes, and probably not fifteen.

So, I would argue, the next D&D has to come with a Red Box -- that is to say, there needs to be an introductory release tesigned to pull people into the game.  This red box needs to contain a few basic rules pamphlets, of course -- somewhere the bare bones versions of the core rules that may be consulted and used to play the game and a lighter printing of the PHB and DMG.  A few sets of dice and a golf pencil or three would also be nice touches -- everything you NEED to play the game, right out of the box

It should also include a good selection of pregenerated characters, at different levels of completion: I'm seeing a mixture of ones that do or don';t have role-playing details.  For the first-timers, having the bare bones of a personality suggested encourages role playing as "acting", while for those unsatisfied with the selection (or who simply want to go their own way with a character): more power to them -- a there are pregenerated's that are statistically complete, but lack all the role-playing details like Race, Gender, Age, Alignment, and Name.  This is so a new group that decides to start playing D&D on a lark can start right away.  A few (4-10) blank character sheets should probably be included too.

This also means that an introductory module should be included.  This needs to be written very well and very carefully, because much like B2, the Keep on the Borderlands, it will be the first experience that many players have with Dungeons and Dragons or, in fact Role Playing at all.  It needs to have those wonderful blocks of description for the DM to read and above all it needs to throw the players into the atmosphere of the game as quickly as possible.  Getting them fighting is probably important, but above all else it needs to get them thinking.  I would almost recommend remaking Keep on the Borderlands itself, which had a nice little town before heading off into the monster infested wilderness and dungeons.  It's likley best to move to the "meat" swiftly, but give them a chance to start imagining before asking them to do battle.  D&D cannot afford to be experienced first and foremost as a hack and slash outlet -- kids today have Diablo for that.

All of the materials in the box need to be written with vigor, interest, and excitement -- if you write to inform (like the quoted passages of the 4e Red Box do), you lose interest.  If you write with passion, you share that passion with your readers.  This would be the product that Wizards has a great interest into putting all their creative muscle into -- I know they have it, I know they can do it.  And when they end the narrative text of a module... If a group has gotten that far, chances are they're hooked: the send-off needs to let them know where to go from here.  Of course, other release products will probably be mentioned, but the call to arms is one to keep going -- the start of a story, the first chapter has been provided for you.  Where can you go from here?  Anywhere you can imagine!