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Jan 13, 2012 -- 4:52PM, mudbunny wrote:

Jan 12, 2012 -- 5:44PM, Dane_McArdy wrote:

That's just all spin, which means you really aren't being objective about it. Lets be honest, WoTC has been making everyone think they were going to give us the tools they had been saying. That there really was an s on the end of Adventure Tools.

I am really not sure what you are accusing me of being not objective about.

If it is about how well WotC managed the release and programming of the DDI tools, I have said that they made mistakes, and that most of the problems that we have seen are a result of inexperience in the management and supervision of the programming team. To be blunt, the bit off more than they could chew and they got screwed by the inability of an outside company to present what had been promised.

If it is about whether they are going to be rolling out more tools, well, I am not sure how you found *anything* in my post which made any sort of comment on whether I think that they are going to be rolling out more tools or not.

Personally, I think that they are going to be rolling out more tools.

More spin. Now it's accusing me of stuff I never even came close to saying. Thanks. Lovely.

Personally, you probably know something you can't say because of NDA. Because I can't see you making a statement about more tools rolling out, where there's a chance you would have to come back and admit you were wrong.

Or is it going to be the kind of spin where you can say, I never said 4E tools.

Jan 15, 2012 -- 11:25AM, mudbunny wrote:

Jan 14, 2012 -- 10:01AM, Dane_McArdy wrote:

More spin. Now it's accusing me of stuff I never even came close to saying. Thanks. Lovely.

*snicker*

Where am I accusing you of anything. You were the one who started with the accusations of me not being objective and spinning things.

Jan 12, 2012 -- 5:44PM, Dane_McArdy wrote:

That's just all spin, which means you really aren't being objective about it. Lets be honest, WoTC has been making everyone think they were going to give us the tools they had been saying. That there really was an s on the end of Adventure Tools.

To which I responded the following:

Jan 13, 2012 -- 4:52PM, mudbunny wrote:

I am really not sure what you are accusing me of being not objective about.

If it is about how well WotC managed the release and programming of the DDI tools, I have said that they made mistakes, and that most of the problems that we have seen are a result of inexperience in the management and supervision of the programming team. To be blunt, the bit off more than they could chew and they got screwed by the inability of an outside company to present what had been promised.

If it is about whether they are going to be rolling out more tools, well, I am not sure how you found *anything* in my post which made any sort of comment on whether I think that they are going to be rolling out more tools or not.

Personally, I think that they are going to be rolling out more tools.

I haven't accused you of anything in my above post. The parts I have bolded make that abundantly clear.

Personally, you probably know something you can't say because of NDA. Because I can't see you making a statement about more tools rolling out, where there's a chance you would have to come back and admit you were wrong.

Or is it going to be the kind of spin where you can say, I never said 4E tools.

UM...

well, I am not sure how you found *anything* in my post which made any sort of comment on whether I think that they are going to be rolling out more tools or not.

I never suggested you said they were going to roll out more tools in my post.

I said "Lets be honest, WoTC has been making everyone think they were going to give us the tools they had been saying."

Nothing in that sentence says anything about you saying they are going to be rolling out more tools or not. So why are you saying I found anything in your post about new tools?

Do I say, Mudbunny, you aren't being honest about more tools for DDi? Nope.

I said it was WOTC not Mudbunny. How come when I saw WoTC, you assume I'm talking about you?

Jan 15, 2012 -- 11:25AM, mudbunny wrote:

Let me make it perfectly clear. I have not heard anything about additional tools coming out, nor have I tested any tools that are not already available to DDI subscribers. I am making a *guess* based on the fact that there is about 18 months between now and when I am guessing the next edition will be coming out (my guess is GenCon 2013).

Ok, fine if your *guess* is wrong, are you going to come back and say that? And by tools, it can't be something like a name generator for places or anything on that level. A tool like they have been saying they would have. You know, to actually make the Adventure Tools just that. T-O-O-L-S.

Jan 16, 2012 -- 3:32PM, mudbunny wrote:

Jan 16, 2012 -- 4:42AM, Dane_McArdy wrote:

I said it was WOTC not Mudbunny. How come when I saw WoTC, you assume I'm talking about you?

Because you didn't say WotC. You replied to me, and in that reply, you said:

Um, go back and read the flow of the conversation.

You repied to this:

That's just all spin, which means you really aren't being objective about it. Lets be honest, WoTC has been making everyone think they were going to give us the tools they had been saying. That there really was an s on the end of Adventure Tools.

By saying:

well, I am not sure how you found *anything* in my post which made any sort of comment on whether I think that they are going to be rolling out more tools or not.

If you are replying to my post above, but are actually talking about a previous post, how am I supposed to read your mind through the internet and know you are actually talking about a completely different post then the one you replied to?

Because in the post you replied to, I am clearly pointing out WoTC, not you.

See, that's how conversations work. They move along. And if you suddenly start talking about something that was said earlier in the conversation, you need to acknowledge you are doing that.

And for the record, I started out by saying you were putting spin on the fact of how many times WoTC has tried to bring us digital tools to help play the game.

If they have 5E tools, it's going to be their 3 third try, with the first two failures to deliver what they said. It doesn't matter if it was being developed via third party or internally. Either way, they still have to manage the project, and a failure to deliver, is still a failure of management.

And if you are going to keep putting forth the impression that there could still be more tools for 4e, well, you either know something, because you've said in the past you've gotten advanced look at things, under a NDA. But maybe you don't.

Or are you just trying to play PR for WoTC by saying you think that more tools will come out? Because that's something you often do.

History shows how WoTC works. 18 months till 5e? With as limited staff and resources they have, and the amount of ramp up time it takes to come out with a new edition, I think it's a safe to say 4e has run it's course.

They had been working on 4e for at least 2 years before they announced it. So, chances are, they have been working on 5e for around a year, laying the ground work.

And they HAVE to have a digital component to the game. To not have that, will kill 5E. It's an aspect of every day life, and customers demand it. It's what killed newspapers and magazines, hurt large educational publishing companies that refused to get on bored, and why companies like Borders and Barns and Nobels are CLOSING stores.

Considering they failed to bring out DDi at the launch of 4e, and for many months after, and it's still hanging around their neck, I'm pretty sure they are going to chain the digital people to thier desks to make sure that there is at least a Character Builder for 5E ready to go at launch.

WoTC has told us they couldn't work on multiple tools for 4E because of limited staff and resources. If they couldn't work on multiple tools for 4E, then I doubt they can work on tools for 4E and 5E at the same time.

Which version is WoTC focused on right now? Why, 5E of course. Because that's were all their profits are going to come from.

So yeah, DDi 4e is pretty much done. That's been my whole point. Anyone associated with WoTC coming to the forums, talking up DDi, is just spin on what happened.