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1 year ago ::
Jan 11, 2012 - 4:51PM
#51
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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LEVELI like things in threes and I thought the "tiered" play idea was a good one, so I'm all for levels 1-30. POWERSI think powers have mostly been a good innovation on the part of WotC. However, I'd like to see something similar to Essentials, where different classes have different power rates rather than all classes gaining powers at precsiely the same rate as was the case in the original release of 4e. VANCIAN SYSTEMI kind of like the strategic aspect of Vancian magic but on the whole I'd rather have powers than Vancian magic, so I guess you can put me on the side of bad, though it's hardly a deal breaker for me. CLASS ROLES Class roles are good but I think some thought should be given to roles outside of combat. I thought Mike Mearls' breakdown of D&D into combat, exploration, and social/roleplaying as pretty succinct and I wouldn't mind seeing exploration and roleplaying roles alongside 4e's combat roles. In fact, I hope WotC does something similar to that. MAGIC ITEMS HAS TO BE MECHANICALLYI'm not sure I actually understand this one. I mean waht would a magical item be that didn't have a mechanical effect? How's that different from a regular item? If the question's about the inflation of magic items, then I wouldn't mind seeing them toned down a bit. But it's not important to me. ABILITIES SCORESGood. While the current method of ability scores is a little bit obtuse, most of everybody who plays any kind of RPG has a basic understanding of the six classic abilities and how they work. While changing the scale might be a worthwhile endeavor it's not important enough to alienate those who are used to the old scale. A LOT OF CLASSESBad-ish. As many classes as are necessary to fill the standard roles of D&D and power sources. No more. We don't need to have the explosion of classes we currently have. Also, a role and a power source shouldn't be combined just to fill the gap. More than a few classes, like invokers or wardens, feel like they're there to "fill the gap" rather than because they fulfill a unique and interesting role, which is the entire point (in my mind) of a class in the first place. So fewer classes than 4e, but no need to cull the field completely. A LOT OF RACESGood-ish. If D&D was covering a specific setting it might be a good idea to limit the number of races down to a smaller number, but since it's a generic fantasy RPG lots of races are good, particularly since most races have at least some ardent supporters. I'd probably limit the number of races in the Core Rules to just elves/eladrin, dwarves, humans, halflings, tieflings, devas/aasimar, and maybe dragonborn and/or gnomes. Anything else can be added in supplementary material, be it online or in books. I'd also recommend revising the rules for half-breeds like half-elves and half-orcs, which currently make no sense. ABILITY SCORES FOR RACESYes. It's important that the races feel distinct from one another and this is a big part of doing that. I'd probably also bring back ability score penalties, although it'd be reasonable to make them less extreme than they were in 3e (perhaps 2 ability bonuses and 1 ability penalty). FEATS (AND OTHER OPTIONS) THAT GIVES YOU STATIC +X BONUSESGood-ish. I actually really like feats, though there seems to be a preponderance of distaste for them. Still, I admit that sourcebooks often go way overboard in making feats, to the point that there's far too many of them for anybody to actually comprehend or playtest effectively, resulting in significent power imbalances. I'd say fewer feats that are perhaps slightly more powerful to compensate. HIT POINTSGood, though I'd like to see the rules for HP revised. Combat often ends up being a slugging match betwee players and monsters at mid to high levels using the current rules. Perhaps fewer HP per level or a smaller bonus to start out with. HEALING SURGESPretty unambiguously good. It gives players whose healer is unavailable or powered down to stand a fighting chance when their HP sinks down to the lower levels. All my players have used this feature to their advantage but never have abused it. DEFENSESI'd actually like to see AC dismissed. There's no real difference between AC and Reflex, as far as I'm concerned, other than AC also uses armor as part of its mathematical formula (which really should be more like armor resistance). So Reflex to dodge, Fortitude to endure, Will to ford of mental stress, and Armor Resistances to absorb damage from attacks that get past one of the three defenses. SKILL CHALLENGESGood, but they need to be designed more intelligently. Part of the problem here is that while the 4e rules for dealing with combat are very elaborate and well-tested, skill challenges were clearly a secondary or even tertiary concern for 4e. Without clear class roles for exploration or roleplaying and a truncated number of skills available to players, skill challenges end up being kind of awkward and hardly what they could be. SKILLS HAVE TO BEImportant. And we need more of them. I'd suggest breaking skills down into three categories: combat, roleplaying, and exploration, with some skills overlapping in two roles. Plus, I'd love to see crafting skills return. It's not an important part of the game, per se, but it can be useful and adds character. NORMAL CHANCE TO HIT50%. ALIGNMENT ISFluff, though I'd be fine with optional mechanical effects in supplementary materials, such as for traversing the planes and dealing with paragons of morality. But for the most part, alignment should be a descriptor of a character rather than a mechanical restraint. And bring back the old alignments already! SAVE OR DIEBad-ish. Something similar isn't a bad idea (only at high levels, of course), but most players (including me) loathe any spell that automatically kills you if you fail a single save. Perhaps a "save once out of two or die?"
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1 year ago ::
Jan 11, 2012 - 4:59PM
#52
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Date Joined:
Jun 16, 2011
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LEVEL 1-30 POWERS GOOD VANCIANT SYSTEM GOOD CLASS ROLES GOOD MAGIC ITEMS HAS TO BE MECHANICALLY IMPORTANT ABILITIES SCORES GOOD A LOT OF CLASSES GOOD A LOT OF RACES GOOD ABILITY SCORES FOR RACES YES FEATS (AND OTHER OPTIONS) THAT GIVES YOU STATIC +X BONUSES GOOD HIT POINTS GOOD HEALING SURGES GOOD DEFENSES AS AC SKILL CHALLENGES GOOD SKILLS HAS TO BE IMPORTANT NORMAL CHANCE TO HIT 50% AS NOW ALIGNMENT IS MECHANICAL SAVE OR DIE GOOD
What about the Tactical aspect of the game and CA, Charging, etc... ? I would say GOOD
Cards? really? BAD!
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1 year ago ::
Jan 11, 2012 - 5:25PM
#53
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Date Joined:
Oct 24, 2001
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Lian87: On your first post, you indicate which is the last Poster to be included, but you reference it by Page number. You're currently up to page 5, but I am only on page 2. I must have a more posts per page setting than you. Could you reference where you are in the updates by post number instead of page number?
Thanks!
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion: - Three Basic Rules (p 11)
- Power Types and Usage (p 54)
- Skills (p178-179)
- Feats (p 192)
- Rest and Recovery (p 263)
- All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 11, 2012 - 5:26PM
#54
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Date Joined:
Apr 24, 2004
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LEVEL 1-20 POWERS GOOD (with tweaking) VANCIANT SYSTEM BAD CLASS ROLES BAD MAGIC ITEMS HAS TO BE MECHANICALLY NOT IMPORTANT ABILITIES SCORES GOOD A LOT OF CLASSES BAD A LOT OF RACES [ABSTAIN] ABILITY SCORES FOR RACES NO FEATS (AND OTHER OPTIONS) THAT GIVES YOU STATIC +X BONUSES [ABSTAIN] HIT POINTS [ABSTAIN] HEALING SURGES GOOD DEFENSES WHAT SKILL CHALLENGES GOOD (as a core idea) SKILLS HAS TO BE IMPORTANT NORMAL CHANCE TO HIT [ABSTAIN] ALIGNMENT IS FLUFF SAVE OR DIE BAD
Rhymes with Bruce
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1 year ago ::
Jan 11, 2012 - 5:28PM
#55
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Date Joined:
Aug 27, 2007
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Levels: 1-20 Powers: good but may have been overemphasized in 4e Vancian Magic: bad Class Roles: useful descriptively. Magic Items: unimportant, or important but few in number. Ability Scores: good. Cut down on stat-based benefits in powers, though. A lot of classes: bad; make a smaller number of more flexible classes. A lot of races: bad. There should be methods of customizing bloodline and background other than races. Ability scores for races: bad, except possibly as minimum/maximum values. Spent too much time going "what race gives me the most plusses at what I'm trying to do" with 4e. Feats (and other static + bonus): bad. Hit Points: good, though the scaling may need work. Healing Surges: second wind is good, healing surges in general I can take or leave. Defenses: AC never made a lot of sense to me, but it's a chunk of work to make damage reduction work well. Possibly dice-based (i.e. leather is d4 armor, plate is d12 armor)? Skill Challenges: some structured challenge method might be good, skill challenges don't work very well. Skills should be: Important Normal Chance to Hit: I'm going to go with 75% (as now)  Alignment is: fluff or setting detail Save or Die: bad, at least for PCs and major NPCs.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 11, 2012 - 7:32PM
#56
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- Senior Volunteer Community Lead
- Sesquipedalian
Date Joined:
May 20, 2001
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I'll post my responses later. Just popped in to say the thread will get stickied.
Spoiler:
Show
Of the two approaches to hobby games today, one is best defined as the realism-simulation school and the other as the game school. AD&D is assuredly an adherent of the latter school. It does not stress any realism (in the author's opinon an absurd effort at best considering the topic!).
It does little to attempt to simulate anything either. (AD&D) is first and foremost a game for the fun and enjoyment of those who seek the use of imagination and creativity....
In all cases, however, the reader should understand that AD&D is designed to be an amusing and diverting pastime, something which an fill a few hours or consume endless days, as the participants desire, but in no case something to be taken too seriously.
For fun, excitement and captivating fantasy, AD&D is unsurpassed.As a realistic simulation of things from the realm of make-believe or even as a reflection of midieval or ancient warfare or culture or society, it can be deemed only a dismal failure. Readers who seek the later must search elsewhere. - Gary Gygax. 1e DMG.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 11, 2012 - 10:09PM
#57
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Date Joined:
Mar 29, 2006
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LEVEL 1-20--30 just doesn't seem as round and finished to me as 20 does. POWERS GOOD--I like everyone having a way to shine in combat, rather than slogging along doing the same thing every round. VANCIANT SYSTEM BAD--too powerful for wizards, too limiting on encounters per day. CLASS ROLES GOOD --they were always there, even if they weren't labelled as such. Now the classes get mechanics to make them better than others at what they do. MAGIC ITEMS HAS TO BE MECHANICALLY IMPORTANT--they need to impact the game, but not so much that they become necessary, or that a PC needs to keep upgrading every few levels. If the attack bonus and enemy defenses scale consistently, a +1 sword is as cool at 20th level as it is at 1st. King Arthur didn't trade in Excalibur when he got to 10th level, did he? ABILITIES SCORES GOOD --How else will you measure who's gifted at certain activities? A LOT OF CLASSES GOOD --as long as they are balanced, why limit options? A LOT OF RACES BAD--It just gets a bit ridiculous. I'm fine with variety, but lets not go overboard. ABILITY SCORES FOR RACES YES--It just makes sense. Halflings beating dragonborn at arm wrestling matches doesn't ring true to me. FEATS (AND OTHER OPTIONS) THAT GIVES YOU STATIC +X BONUSES BAD --if the bonus needs to be there, make it automatic. If it doesn't, make the choices more exciting, unique and flavorful. HIT POINTS GOOD --and keep them somewhat close between the classes. Otherwise it's hard to make monsters that can worry one PC without being able to instakill another. HEALING SURGES GOOD --very cinematic and cool to have a hero shrug off the damage he has already absorbed. DEFENSES AS AC--caginess and reaction to avoid getting hit is good. Armor as DR is the better change here. SKILL CHALLENGES BAD --they try to make everything a combat-like challenge. This is one area where I preferred 3.x's mechanics. SKILLS HAS TO BE IMPORTANT --It can't just be numbers for combat and narration for everything else. Characters need to grow and shine on multiple levels. NORMAL CHANCE TO HIT 50% AS NOW --otherwise it gets too easy, and there is little need to roll. ALIGNMENT IS FLUFF --open to interpretation, full of gray areas. SAVE OR DIE BAD--fear is good, random, meaningless death of PCs is horrible.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 11, 2012 - 10:22PM
#58
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LEVEL 1-30 POWERS Good. Though I prefer something for fighters more similar to the Book of 9 Swords, and more old-school Vancian for wizards/clerics/druids. VANCIAN (What is a Vanciant?) SYSTEM Mixed. Good for spellcasters, bad for everyone else. This includes daily powers on fighters, which never made sense. Spellcasters also need some form of at-will powers.
CLASS ROLES Good. Though they totally need to be revised for balance. MAGIC ITEMS Bring back custom item creation. 4e had a terrible selection of worthless magic items because you couldn't mix and match abilities. ABILITIES SCORES Good. I like how Legend handles stat bumps. (All stats go up, some faster than others.) A LOT OF CLASSES Good. But WOTC had very spotty support for some classes, and tremendous support for others. (Compare support for the Fighter vs. Seeker.) This should not be. A LOT OF RACES Good. Again, WOTC support was very uneven. ABILITY SCORES FOR RACES Good. Do it like Pathfinder.
FEATS (AND OTHER OPTIONS) THAT GIVES YOU STATIC +X BONUSES. Good. I hate conditional bonuses because it overcomplicates the game, and people tend to forget them. +4 to hit against gnomes? Pass.
HIT POINTS Good. Dying at -50% is an improvement over 3e, but healing shouldn't take you to 0 immediately. HEALING SURGES. Bad. Bad. Bad. It's a broken mechanic that doesn't do what it was intended to do. DEFENSES AC is fine. It's D&D. SKILL CHALLENGES. Worst part of 4e. Take them out behind the barn and shot. SKILLS HAVE TO BE. The skill system in 4e works. But bring back Profession and Craft. NORMAL CHANCE TO HIT. 65% hit chance (hitting on a 8+) is a nice number for a reasonably optimized character. (Starting 20 in the attack stat, etc.) ALIGNMENT IS. Mechanical. Bring back Smite Evil, or Forbiddance. SAVE OR DIE. Okay if instead of killing, they reduce you to -1. (See Orcus' Death Touch Ability.)
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1 year ago ::
Jan 11, 2012 - 10:44PM
#59
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Date Joined:
Jun 10, 2008
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LEVEL 1-30
POWERS GOOD. I like all classes being able to do cool things. I wouldn't mind seeing some variance in classes' power structure, though. (e.g. Martials getting at-will stances + Encounter powers, Arcanes getting their Dailies on top, etc.)
VANCIAN SYSTEM BAD. Horrendous, antiquated, annoying.
CLASS ROLES GOOD. They're the main reason 4e had nothing designed to be as overpowered as CoDzillas or as pathetic as the 3.5 Monk. (And no, not even the 4e Assassin, Vampire and Binder approach the wretchedness of the 3.5 Monk.) I wouldn't mind seeing the class roles being loosened a bit, though, like giving a particular class a couple of roles it might prefer (say, for example, Fighter -> Defender or Striker), give that class build options pertaining to any of the roles it prefers, but have it so that no one particular build of that class can completely satisfy ALL of the roles that class might prefer.
MAGIC ITEMS HAS TO BE MECHANICALLY NOT IMPORTANT. They should definitely be taken out of the math for attack rolls and defenses.
ABILITIES SCORES GOOD. That's one sacred cow that's not at all necessary to kill.
A LOT OF CLASSES GOOD. Well, can be good, as long as there's a good reason for them all and they're well supported.
A LOT OF RACES GOOD. See above comment about classes.
ABILITY SCORES FOR RACES YES.
FEATS (AND OTHER OPTIONS) THAT GIVES YOU STATIC +X BONUSES GOOD. Up to a point.
HIT POINTS GOOD.
HEALING SURGES GOOD.
DEFENSES AS AC. And 4e's Fortitude, Reflex and Will. DR can be a neat supplemental ability, but keep AC/F/R/W the main.
SKILL CHALLENGES BAD. Well the concept isn't bad, but the execution of them in 4e was one of the relatively few things I truly loathe about 4e. SKILLS HAVE TO BE IMPORTANT.
NORMAL CHANCE TO HIT MORE LIKE 75%. Lets non-optimized parties have their fun hitting while still keeping just enough of a chance of failure in play. Would almost single-handedly speed up combat. Would preclude the need for a ton of accuracy-boosting feats. And finally, would reduce the gap between non-optimized and optimized.
ALIGNMENT IS FLUFF. Unlike some people I don't mind alignments sticking around, but PLEASE keep them the HELL away from the mechanics.
SAVE OR DIE GOOD. Yes, 3.5's SoD's were bad, but SoDs don't have to be bad just by definition of the phrase. Player SoD powers that gave the enemy 3 failed saves before they die (under the 4e save system) would've been fine. Monster "SoDs" that knocked you down to 0 HP, rather than explicitly killing you, were also OK.
D&DN Paladin: Half-Fighter, half-Cleric, all useless. D&DN Ranger: Third-Fighter, third-Rogue, third-Druid, all useless. With one interesting concept that has its execution botched. My 4e Character Op work:Character guides
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1 year ago ::
Jan 11, 2012 - 10:57PM
#60
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Date Joined:
Jan 10, 2012
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LEVEL 1-20 POWERS BAD VANCIAN SYSTEM GOOD CLASS ROLES BAD MAGIC ITEMS HAS TO BE MECHANICALLY IMPORTANT ABILITIES SCORES GOOD A LOT OF CLASSES GOOD A LOT OF RACES BAD ABILITY SCORES FOR RACES YES FEATS (AND OTHER OPTIONS) THAT GIVES YOU STATIC +X BONUSES GOOD BAD HIT POINTS GOOD HEALING SURGES GOOD DEFENSES AS SAVES SKILL CHALLENGES BAD SKILLS HAS TO BE IMPORTANT NORMAL CHANCE TO HIT 50% AS NOW ALIGNMENT IS MECHANICAL SAVE OR DIE GOOD
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