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1 year ago ::
Jan 10, 2012 - 9:33AM
#1
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XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek
Date Joined:
May 31, 2003
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I believe 5th edition D&D will be something new for various reasons. These are purely opinionated statements.
- Will not be like 3rd edition: Simple, Paizo has that market in the bag. People don't play Pathfinder because there is nothing else to play. If they really wanted D&D's 3.5 then they would play it. People play Pathfinder because it gives them what they want.
- Will not be like 4th edition: Apparently if 4th edition was such a success then we wouldn't be having this conversation. If they wanted to create an edition that was like 4th edition then that would be a waste of time because they could easily take 4th edition and tweak it to what they think the majority wants. They wouldn't need a 5th edition to do that.
- Will be it's own thing: The only way Wizards is going to get people from Pathfinder and keep people that play 4th edition is to create a new game that hopefully both sets of people like. In my opinion this would be the best option.
With 4th edition not lasting as long as was expected and it essentially being one of the shortest editions, I really wouldn't see Wizards trying to mimic much from that edition. Like any new edition, there will be some things carried over that may have not been really defined by a particular edition. I could be completely wrong about this but this is how I feel about the whole thing. I also think they will back up from the digital age a bit. DDI was very convenient but it wasn't very practical because you would have people who never needed to buy a book and could play D&D just by spending a few quid a month. It's one of those situations where it's great for the customer but bad for the business and when it becomes bad for the business it eventually becomes bad for the customer because it can't be sustained.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 10, 2012 - 9:40AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2003
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Xun,
I hope you are right, but I don't think you are. Some points:
1. The idea that 5E will be a game for everyone should be dismissed outright for the marketing pap that it is. You are not going to please everyone especially given the deep divide and bitterness that equates "what's good for Pathfinder/3.5 is bad for DnD and vice versa" attitude. If you try to please everyone, you please no one.
2. The OGL is still out there and still going strong and Wotc will always have to compete with it or coopt it. Given how well (not) competition has worked, I think Tony Vargas is right in saying that Wotc will be forced to adopt the old OGL and that means much of the 3.5 system that goes with it.
3. The Current designers (both Cook and Mearls) seem to regard 4E as a nightmare best forgotten and Cook was intimately involved in the creation of 3E and Mearls openly advocates a retro return to ADnD/BCEMI. Neither bode well for what you are talking about.
In short, I hope you're right, but I don't think you are.
-Polaris
Edit PS: One more additional point I just remembered. I don't think WOTC CAN back off their digital initiative. If the Escapist/Insider Articles are at all correct (and I think they are), then DND has to post a 50 million dollar mark with a trajectory upwards and quickly (within a year of the new edition would be my best guess), or Hasbro will pull the plug and DND as a marketed product line will die. The only way they can do that is to push the digital initiative with an eye to the MMO market.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 10, 2012 - 9:40AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Feb 15, 2010
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I believe 5th edition D&D will be something new for various reasons. These are purely opinionated statements.
- Will not be like 3rd edition: Simple, Paizo has that market in the bag. People don't play Pathfinder because there is nothing else to play. If they really wanted D&D's 3.5 then they would play it. People play Pathfinder because it gives them what they want.
- Will not be like 4th edition: Apparently if 4th edition was such a success then we wouldn't be having this conversation. If they wanted to create an edition that was like 4th edition then that would be a waste of time because they could easily take 4th edition and tweak it to what they think the majority wants. They wouldn't need a 5th edition to do that.
- Will be it's own thing: The only way Wizards is going to get people from Pathfinder and keep people that play 4th edition is to create a new game that hopefully both sets of people like. In my opinion this would be the best option.
With 4th edition not lasting as long as was expected and it essentially being one of the shortest editions, I really wouldn't see Wizards trying to mimic much from that edition. Like any new edition, there will be some things carried over that may have not been really defined by a particular edition. I could be completely wrong about this but this is how I feel about the whole thing.
I also think they will back up from the digital age a bit. DDI was very convenient but it wasn't very practical because you would have people who never needed to buy a book and could play D&D just by spending a few quid a month. It's one of those situations where it's great for the customer but bad for the business and when it becomes bad for the business it eventually becomes bad for the customer because it can't be sustained.
In fact I agree with your conculsion Ill break it down by point.
1st point well stated there is already such a game in production why would they want such built in competion.
2nd point I like many inovations of 4e I think it is however becoming too Kludged with rules updates. I hope then incorporate some 4e into the game, however I am prepared that they wont.
3rd point indeed it will be hard enough, maybe impossible, to be inclusive with both the 3e loyalist and the 4e guardians, if they re-tread either game it would be impossible.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 10, 2012 - 9:43AM
#4
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i think it will be more like 'what numbers do we need to use to let people play 1st-4e pcs at the same table?' ie what damage, what hit bonuses etc. its kind of like what labyrinth lord did with its advanced edition companion and original edition companion. actually so much like it that they might have gotten the idea from them of course ascending ac alone will keep thousands from buying it, but i wouldnt be surprised if ac was the only 'basic' defense with anything else being an add-on
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1 year ago ::
Jan 10, 2012 - 9:46AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jan 10, 2012
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What I am truly hoping is that it has the same vibe that 1st & 2nd edition had; I didn't mind 3rd edition but I think the best times I had was with 1st & 2nd edition.
Jeff Martin
Play Tester AD&D 1st & 2nd editions
Charter Member: The Company Of The Wolf Gaming Guild
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1 year ago ::
Jan 10, 2012 - 9:49AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Aug 16, 2007
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I would agree with most of the OPs insights but one, the last one. The digital age is killing the LFGS from more directions than one. I have purchased almost all of the books but rarely take any of them to a game. I believe in supporting game stores but my discussions with owners leads me to believe in the inevitability of their demise. I don't like saying it but unless something changes, areas of business that don't adapt will become extinct. We all want it cheap and we want it now, and that is the current trend.
I will now go back to my room and cry about my post.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 10, 2012 - 9:51AM
#7
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eh i still go to game shops when im travelling and look for 1e stuff. i also get tiles at game shops. but big books? never
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1 year ago ::
Jan 10, 2012 - 9:53AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Aug 16, 2007
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eh i still go to game shops when im travelling and look for 1e stuff. i also get tiles at game shops. but big books? never
That is very niche of you.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 10, 2012 - 10:13AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Sep 14, 2009
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i think it will be more like 'what numbers do we need to use to let people play 1st-4e pcs at the same table?' ie what damage, what hit bonuses etc.
its kind of like what labyrinth lord did with its advanced edition companion and original edition companion. actually so much like it that they might have gotten the idea from them
of course ascending ac alone will keep thousands from buying it, but i wouldnt be surprised if ac was the only 'basic' defense with anything else being an add-on
A lot of neo old school stuff, uses ascending ac. S&W and LotFP, in particular. I'm fine with either, though I have a slight preference for descending.
It's easily convertible, with the real issue being the bounded nature of the descending tables. I've ran very high level AD&D and never used an AC better than -6. As opposed to AC's of 40+ in 3e.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 10, 2012 - 11:45AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Aug 21, 2003
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of course ascending ac alone will keep thousands from buying it, but i wouldnt be surprised if ac was the only 'basic' defense with anything else being an add-on
Ascendign AC was THAt big of a deal to the old grognards? I think ascending AC/Attack bonuses was one of the very best innovations of 3e and up. 2e, for me (the edition I started on, I am only barely too young for 1e), was needlessly complicated with rules that were more of a hindrance to play and to fun.
For me, I shudder that 5e is even in the works. My bookshelf of 4e products literally bows with weight. I didn't want to give up 3.5e, either, but reading the design noted for 4e made it to tempting to pass up, and I discovered I liekd it. I hope 5e will keep what was good (giving classes more options) and get rid of what was "bad" (I prefered 3.x's style of magic).
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