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Switch to Forum Live View Archmage's Ascension - The Wizard's Handbook
1 year ago  ::  Jan 04, 2012 - 6:42AM #21
RuinsFate
Date Joined: Jan 24, 2010
Posts: 1,525
Introduction, class features and races are done.
A Beginners Primer to CharOp.
Archmage's Ascension - The Wizard's Handbook.
Let the Hammer Fall: Dwarf Warpriest/Tactical Warpriest/Indomitable Champion, a Defending Leader.
Requiem for Dissent: Cleric/Fighter/Paragon of Victory Melee Leader
Ko te manu e kai i te miro, nona te ngahere. Ko te manu e kai i te matauranga e, nano te ao katoa.

It's the proliferation of people who think the rules are more important than what the rules are meant to accomplish. - Dedekine
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 04, 2012 - 7:15AM #22
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,720
Correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't a witch get the moon coven power for free?
Thus it would have 2 level 1 encounter powers?

At least that's the way it looks in the compendium.
guides Show
my builds Show

F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones.  Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 04, 2012 - 7:24AM #23
RuinsFate
Date Joined: Jan 24, 2010
Posts: 1,525
No it does not. HoFW PG 89: "Your 1st-level wizard encounter attack power is determined by your Moon Coven choice."
A Beginners Primer to CharOp.
Archmage's Ascension - The Wizard's Handbook.
Let the Hammer Fall: Dwarf Warpriest/Tactical Warpriest/Indomitable Champion, a Defending Leader.
Requiem for Dissent: Cleric/Fighter/Paragon of Victory Melee Leader
Ko te manu e kai i te miro, nona te ngahere. Ko te manu e kai i te matauranga e, nano te ao katoa.

It's the proliferation of people who think the rules are more important than what the rules are meant to accomplish. - Dedekine
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 04, 2012 - 7:59AM #24
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,720
I was trying to find a reason to not rate witches as red.  Many people in this forum over-react and claim things are that utter crap because they are not twin-strike or KAM.

However, i agree with the red rating.  Even if you never used ritual casting and where going to spend a feat on a familar anyways.
guides Show
my builds Show

F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones.  Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 04, 2012 - 8:30AM #25
RuinsFate
Date Joined: Jan 24, 2010
Posts: 1,525
That's pretty much my thoughts on the matter - what you lose doesn't make up for what you gain, when there is basicly nothing unique to or about it.
A Beginners Primer to CharOp.
Archmage's Ascension - The Wizard's Handbook.
Let the Hammer Fall: Dwarf Warpriest/Tactical Warpriest/Indomitable Champion, a Defending Leader.
Requiem for Dissent: Cleric/Fighter/Paragon of Victory Melee Leader
Ko te manu e kai i te miro, nona te ngahere. Ko te manu e kai i te matauranga e, nano te ao katoa.

It's the proliferation of people who think the rules are more important than what the rules are meant to accomplish. - Dedekine
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 04, 2012 - 8:42AM #26
Nausicaa
Date Joined: Feb 3, 2006
Posts: 3,101

Jan 4, 2012 -- 7:59AM, mellored wrote:

I was trying to find a reason to not rate witches as red.  Many people in this forum over-react and claim things are that utter crap because they are not twin-strike or KAM.




Unfortunately there is not. Witch is really bad even compared to, say, necromancers.

Chauntea/Lathander/Torm Cleric since 1995

My husband married a DM - καλὸς καὶ ἀγαθός

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1 year ago  ::  Jan 04, 2012 - 9:29AM #27
GelatinousOctahedron
Date Joined: Jun 30, 2008
Posts: 5,740
I agree with the red rating.  I would not rate witches higher than purple in heroic, but after that they are red. I really don't like the level 24 feature since even at high levels you are usually better off taking another standard action than recharging an encounter power, especially since the vast majority of good paragon paths give you a bonus with action points spent for actions.
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 04, 2012 - 10:51AM #28
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,720

Jan 4, 2012 -- 9:29AM, GelatinousOctahedron wrote:

I agree with the red rating.  I would not rate witches higher than purple in heroic, but after that they are red. I really don't like the level 24 feature since even at high levels you are usually better off taking another standard action than recharging an encounter power, especially since the vast majority of good paragon paths give you a bonus with action points spent for actions.


I'm pretty sure you still get the bonus for most of the PP's.  Most just say "spend an action point" and not "spend an action point to take an action".

Though it does kinda make me want to try and use it in a defiling + avenging spirit + warmaster combo...   mabey with steal time.


Though it really just seems like the witch is missing a feature.  Like...  you can put your familar in active mode even if it already was damage.

guides Show
my builds Show

F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones.  Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 04, 2012 - 11:15AM #29
RuinsFate
Date Joined: Jan 24, 2010
Posts: 1,525
At-wills are done. That was... enlightening... shall we say.

Quite why there are five single-target, psychic damaging Illusion at-wills, each with slightly different effects, really is beyond me.
A Beginners Primer to CharOp.
Archmage's Ascension - The Wizard's Handbook.
Let the Hammer Fall: Dwarf Warpriest/Tactical Warpriest/Indomitable Champion, a Defending Leader.
Requiem for Dissent: Cleric/Fighter/Paragon of Victory Melee Leader
Ko te manu e kai i te miro, nona te ngahere. Ko te manu e kai i te matauranga e, nano te ao katoa.

It's the proliferation of people who think the rules are more important than what the rules are meant to accomplish. - Dedekine
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 04, 2012 - 11:43AM #30
LiquidRaven
Date Joined: Jan 6, 2011
Posts: 110
I just wanted to say good luck on this RuinsFate!
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