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1 year ago ::
Dec 22, 2011 - 12:21PM
#51
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No sense of pacing and a love for needless filler. That is my critique of Tolken.
I completely agree with you, which is why my favourite books of his are "The Hobbit" and "The Children of Húrin", where those problems either don't exist or are vastly diminished. Still, he's a great storyteller - I still get goosebumps from reading scenes like Éowyn facing the Witch-King, or Sam literally carrying Frodo and his burden.
Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal. But the good name never dies of one who has done well.
Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal. But I know one thing that never dies: the glory of the great dead.
- Hávamál
D&D 4th Edition Bard builds: The Dashing Swordsman, The Master of Sound and Illusions, The Warrior Skald
Captain Morality! (No point in not having fun with it. ;-))
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1 year ago ::
Dec 22, 2011 - 1:21PM
#52
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No sense of pacing and a love for needless filler. That is my critique of Tolken.
I completely agree with you, which is why my favourite books of his are "The Hobbit" and "The Children of Húrin", where those problems either don't exist or are vastly diminished. Still, he's a great storyteller - I still get goosebumps from reading scenes like Éowyn facing the Witch-King, or Sam literally carrying Frodo and his burden.
I have to disagree about the lack of pacing and needless filler. I never once felt like I was reading filler. Say extraneous detail/background info, and I won't completely disagree, but needless filler is just silly.
And yeah, he's one of the best storytellers ever to publish a novel. He fully deserves to be listed amongst the great authors, such as Dickens, Faulkner, Tolstoy, etc.
But it's kind of like music, and hipster elitism. Some hipsters like to talk trash about Led Zeppelin, because it makes them feel like they're better than the people who enjoy Zep. Other people can't stand Linkin Park, because they're incapable of turning of the music snob in their head, and enjoying something that's made to just be enjoyable, not to be high art. Both are wrong, AFAIC.
That said, RAS really is a crappy author. I can read and enjoy Greenwood, even though I'm not that impressed by his writing abillity in any literary snob sense, and I love Tolkien, party because of the lit snob in me, but RAS is just...dull and uninspired. It's not fun to read in a "here's some fun fluff novel goodness" sense, and it's certainly not worthy of critical acclaim. it's just, there.
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
I could say anything in D&D is silly though, because it's a silly game and we are silly people.
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1 year ago ::
Dec 22, 2011 - 1:29PM
#53
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Date Joined:
Oct 11, 2011
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And yeah, he's one of the best storytellers ever to publish a novel. He fully deserves to be listed amongst the great authors, such as Dickens, Faulkner, Tolstoy, etc.
I couldn't agree more. The person I actually compare him to the most is James Joyce. When I tell that to people who are big literature fans like myself, the result is usually something along the lines of "What have you been smoking?" But although their styles couldn't be more different, if you look at the way the two authors each created a world (Joyce's Dublin, specifically) where they knew the location of each pebble and the historical reasons why it was now one-hundred feet further away than it used to be, they both possess an unequaled ability at world-creation.
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1 year ago ::
Dec 22, 2011 - 1:45PM
#54
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While I'd much rather read Stephen Brust, George R. R. Martin or Elizabeth Boyer (again), I've read far far worse than Salvatore. He does have some spectacularly crappy names though. Almost as bad as Dumbledore or quidditch.
Oh Elizabeth Boyer, I so loved the Elves and the Otterskin!
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1 year ago ::
Dec 22, 2011 - 1:53PM
#55
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For all the people bashing Twilight, I'm curious. Have you read any of the books to make that judgement?
I haven't. So I really can't say anything about them. And have to say, at least Stephenie Meyer has created something. On that level I can respect her.
So, in some ways, she at least got that over most people slagging her.
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1 year ago ::
Dec 22, 2011 - 2:10PM
#56
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Date Joined:
Jul 23, 2003
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Salvatore's work is rather pulp. Most of the older stuff is entertaining. The last Salvatore novel I read was a couple of years back, I haven't been a big Salvatore fan since my early 20s. But in my late teens and early 20s I thought his work was awesome. Looking back, a lot of his stuff is disposable sword and sorcery fiction, but it's good for what it is. Expecting it to be something other than a bit of an adventurous romp with a little drama to spice things up is expecting far too much. And, yes, like many authors, he abuses certain words and phrases ("lavender orbs") far too much.
Scope my YouTube channel!The U.S. Army: The best job in the world, working with some of the best people in the world, for one of the worst employers you could ever imagine. Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS! | Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994. | Billy Goat Gruff in the House of Trolls. |
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1 year ago ::
Dec 22, 2011 - 4:32PM
#57
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For all the people bashing Twilight, I'm curious. Have you read any of the books to make that judgement?
I have. All of them. And I can tell you this much: not only do I not like it, it is just plain badly written. I mean, depending on the reader's taste, it's enjoyable - it's basically a cheap romance novel on the veins of Sidney Sheldon -, but Meyer is not a good writer, period.
Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal. But the good name never dies of one who has done well.
Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal. But I know one thing that never dies: the glory of the great dead.
- Hávamál
D&D 4th Edition Bard builds: The Dashing Swordsman, The Master of Sound and Illusions, The Warrior Skald
Captain Morality! (No point in not having fun with it. ;-))
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1 year ago ::
Dec 22, 2011 - 5:02PM
#58
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And yeah, he's one of the best storytellers ever to publish a novel. He fully deserves to be listed amongst the great authors, such as Dickens, Faulkner, Tolstoy, etc.
I couldn't agree more. The person I actually compare him to the most is James Joyce. When I tell that to people who are big literature fans like myself, the result is usually something along the lines of "What have you been smoking?" But although their styles couldn't be more different, if you look at the way the two authors each created a world (Joyce's Dublin, specifically) where they knew the location of each pebble and the historical reasons why it was now one-hundred feet further away than it used to be, they both possess an unequaled ability at world-creation.
Precisely! And of course, LoTR is an epic tale on par with anything out of the Norse Sagas, or any other mythology I've read, if not better. Then you read his other stuff, and it's amazing in entirely different ways. Truly, a literary genius.
Read Guy Gavriel Kay. In particular, the Fionavar Tapestry, Tigana and Song For Arbonne. If you're into history at all, the second two will really tickle you, but they're brilliant with or without an appreciation of history.
For all the people bashing Twilight, I'm curious. Have you read any of the books to make that judgement?
I haven't. So I really can't say anything about them. And have to say, at least Stephenie Meyer has created something. On that level I can respect her.
So, in some ways, she at least got that over most people slagging her.
I read as much as I could stand. Had to sit through a bunch of the second book on audio in my sister's car once, too. It was so terrible that it made me angry. Literally, I got angry at how bad it was.
I'm sorry, but she has nothing over any of us, except money. I've about as much respect for her as I do for Donald Trump. That is, none whatsoever. Less, even, than I have for random stranger about whom I know nothing. Her work is actively detrimental to our society.
She is a bad author.
You know when a friend wants you to read his short fiction, and you spend the whole time you read it wondering how the hell you're going to talk to him ever again without cringing, because you want to tell him how bloody awful his writing is, but you just can't bring yourself to do it?
Yeah, she's like that. Only...I've enjoyed some of that fiction more than hers, because at least some of that fiction didn't annoy me from the premise up, or feature themes dealt with in such a way that they would have a negative impact on society if taken seriously.
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
I could say anything in D&D is silly though, because it's a silly game and we are silly people.
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1 year ago ::
Dec 22, 2011 - 5:16PM
#59
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Date Joined:
Oct 11, 2011
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For all the people bashing Twilight, I'm curious. Have you read any of the books to make that judgement?
I have. All of them. And I can tell you this much: not only do I not like it, it is just plain badly written. I mean, depending on the reader's taste, it's enjoyable - it's basically a cheap romance novel on the veins of Sidney Sheldon -, but Meyer is not a good writer, period.
Some people would have stopped before the first novel ended lol. Why did you end up reading all of them?
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1 year ago ::
Dec 22, 2011 - 6:25PM
#60
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Date Joined:
Jun 29, 2007
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I think the fantasy game novel genre is pretty well stuck in mediocrity by it's very nature.
Yup. This, 100%. About the only gaming tie-in guy who has managed to write convincingly well is Dan Abnett for his WH40k books.
I'm no sort of English major, and I regrettably faked my way through the classics, but I'd much rather read good fantasy and sci-fi than crap. If I'm reading a gaming tie-in book, I'm basically holding my nose to get setting details (like I did for Dark Sun). My time for reading has been cut short a bit, but I'd recommend Erikson's Malazan series, anything by Neal Stephenson, and R. Scott Bakker's Prince of Nothing series for starters. 
-O
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