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2 years ago ::
Dec 14, 2011 - 1:30PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Dec 30, 2009
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Looking for a Redonkulous Striker
Our group just hit Paragon and I'm looking for a new Striker that can keep up with the group's munchkin Daggermaster who hits everything on a 4 and blows them up with crits.
Some parameters:
Highly accurate (my dice hate me)
Not charged focused and no twin strike (have lower level versions of these already)
LFR legal
Whaddya say CharOp? Got anything that can help me keep up with that Daggermaster?
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2 years ago ::
Dec 14, 2011 - 1:47PM
#2
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You could try a rogue daggermaster....  Or if your looking for something different. Runepriest|Avenger/Hammer of Vengence. Gets 2 attacks, and can heal. After that. I suggest a stealth build, like executioner|warlock/evermeet warlock, or even a stealth defender. Hiding next to someone (or above with the pixie) will often get you an extra attack. Defener's punishment can be considered your striker feature.
guides
Show
my builds
Show
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 14, 2011 - 2:03PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Feb 19, 2006
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Or be a Warlord and use the Rogue as your striker feature.
Seriously though, it would help to have an idea of how optimized his Rogue is overall. Does me make good use of minor action to maximize his damage? Matching a light to moderately optimized rogue with your constraints is going to be a heck of a lot easier than matching a heavily optimized rogue.
Also are you looking to match at-will DPR or nova potential?
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2 years ago ::
Dec 14, 2011 - 3:52PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Dec 30, 2009
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Thanks for your replies.
We're a fairly power gamery group so my friend's rogue is pretty heavily optimized. He's got a least one minor encounter (Low Slash) and I think another one now from Daggermaster. Brutal rogue, d8 sneak, Viscious dagger(s), and 2 Weapon Opening...
It may be that I can't catch him without charging or twin strike. (Another friend's girlfriend has a charger so I don't really want to steal her thunder.)
I do have a Lazylord to try, but the rogue's brother is becoming more available and he's got a cleric so...
My other thought is that the rogue is fairly squishy so maybe I could go another way and do something like Mellored's unkillable avenger. I'm not very familiar with Avengers. Is there something specific about them for the build to work? Would it also work with something like executioner or vampire? (for variety's sake since we don't have either of those in our playgroup)
I'll check out the other two builds Mellored posted. They look interesting too.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 14, 2011 - 3:57PM
#5
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There are only three ways of striking in 4e effectively. Iterative damage (which is basically broken if optimized around), multi-attacking, and charging. You nixed two of those, so figure out a zone abuse build and have fun. Probably Genasi Mage.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 14, 2011 - 5:24PM
#6
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My other thought is that the rogue is fairly squishy so maybe I could go another way and do something like Mellored's unkillable avenger. I'm not very familiar with Avengers. Is there something specific about them for the build to work? Would it also work with something like executioner or vampire? (for variety's sake since we don't have either of those in our playgroup)
The unkillable avenger is a bit outdated. If i was gunna rebuild her, it'd probably be a half-elf with twin-strike.
Anyways, the idea is to get your death saves up to +19(ish) so you spend a surge whenever you need it. Ranger's Horizon Walker PP is the easiest way to do this, giving you +Wis to death saving throws. Revenant (+ daze saves (superior will)) makes it so you don't loose (many) actions.
Avenger's are Wis based, and can be sub-defenders, so that's why i picked them. You also benifit from any "while bloodied" (battlecrazed) and "while below 0" (restless dead, stormhawk vengence).
It really breaks the game when you combo with belt of brokeness, ghostly vitality, and raven consort. Which truely prevent you from dying. Then dump the rest into offense.
There are only three ways of superior striking in 4e effectively. Iterative damage (which is basically broken if optimized around), multi-attacking, and charging. You nixed two of those, so figure out a zone abuse build and have fun. Probably Genasi Mage.
Most strikers work fine without those in most homegames. Optimized games however, you do want one of those.
Also note that twin-strike isn't the only way of getting multi-attacks (KAM, HoV, stealth). Just among the easier.
guides
Show
my builds
Show
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 14, 2011 - 5:31PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2010
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There are only three ways of superior striking in 4e effectively. Iterative damage (which is basically broken if optimized around), multi-attacking, and charging. You nixed two of those, so figure out a zone abuse build and have fun. Probably Genasi Mage.
Most strikers work fine without those in most homegames. Optimized games however, you do want one of those.
OP mentioned wanting to outdo a Daggermaster Scoundrel. Safe to assume that he does, in fact, want superior striking.
mellored's advice here is pretty good. Avengers often look at charge op or poaching Twin Strike, but they can still put up pretty nice damage through normal crit-fishing, and they play quite differently than most other strikers.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 14, 2011 - 6:53PM
#8
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Date Joined:
May 30, 2005
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Let him do single target, go aoe doom (thunder-voker, psychic psion, various sorcerers, genasi mage). You won't be competing directly, and he'll start one shotting everything you hit previously. Of those, I would go with the Tiefling Psion myself (but that's simply because I think it seems different enough that it might bring something else to your group, while still doing reasonable damage).
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2 years ago ::
Dec 14, 2011 - 10:53PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Feb 18, 2009
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Half Elf Avenger (Hammer of Vengeance PP) with Word of Diminishment dilettante to initiate the rune state works fantastically well. Throw on censure of unity (you'll be next to party members anyhow, might as well get extra damage for it), add permafrost, Pelor's Sun Blessing (if your DM is okay with equipping boons) and you've got some real striking chops. Mix in a solid theme (Sohei is excellent) and some avenger minor action attacks, and you'll have one of the most complete striker packages in the game. You'll be using all of your actions every round (even a rogue has a tough time saying that), you'll have an explosive nova, and be doing more dpr than your typical TWF ranger or KAM fighter. It's my striker of choice.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 15, 2011 - 1:53AM
#10
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Hmm having trouble seeing that one. Can your ellaborate pls?
HoV is a invoker PP that works well with crits so that I understand. Using the str based WoD for short term vulnerability seems odd, but I guess you are using adept dilitante to use wis? but that would use up the MC option no?
Ohh I see 2 PPs with the same name! Heh. Got it then thx =)
Hmm doesnt solve the str and con based PP though?
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