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Switch to Forum Live View If you could change just one thing.
1 year ago  ::  Dec 15, 2011 - 3:57PM #51
Dapifer
Date Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Posts: 246
I don't like the scaling +1/2 your level thing I noticed that both Defenses and the Base Attack Bonus scale equaly, so removing it altogether would be my choice. That, and the Dailies, as has been mentioned before I would make them buffs that last the tinre encounter or just convert them into encounter powers and call it a day. Normal encounter Powers could be "Minor Arts" while the more powerful Dailies could be called "Major Arts". So now all could be encounter based but still be divided among power output and gained at the same levels.
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1 year ago  ::  Dec 15, 2011 - 4:21PM #52
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,482
Attack rolls (*for damage)

HP is already abstract, so just roll some damage and be done with it.  It would save at least 5 minutes a battle too.

*some effects should still be hit/miss.
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my builds Show

F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones.  Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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1 year ago  ::  Dec 15, 2011 - 5:41PM #53
Garthanos
Date Joined: Jan 15, 2009
Posts: 17,736

Dec 15, 2011 -- 4:21PM, mellored wrote:

Attack rolls (*for damage) HP is already abstract, so just roll some damage and be done with it. It would save at least 5 minutes a battle too. *some effects should still be hit/miss.




If the damage was above a certain threshold effect kicks in.

Improvisation in 4e: Improv. Attacks(by wrecan) - Fave 4E Improvisations

The Non-combatant Adventurer

Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness

Dynamic Reflavoring : The Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage
Creative Character Collection - Featuring:The Faerie Master - Snow White - Joxer - Ironman - Elric - Bloodwright

By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one

"You have to explicitly give non-casters permission to do awesome, where as with magic it is just assumed they can." -Garthanos

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1 year ago  ::  Dec 16, 2011 - 12:48AM #54
Pluisjen
Date Joined: May 13, 2009
Posts: 14,168


If the damage was above a certain threshold effect kicks in.




The more damage you do, the nastier the effect. I think I've suggested this one a few times before, but I don't think it'd work on its own; would be a pretty major overhaul.

I actually think BeaverDuck has the right answer. More ability to houserule in the character builder. Better electronic tools in general. The game works pretty well even despite some flaws and oversights, but what really would make me happy are mapping tools, good monster builders and a more awesome character builder.

Epic Dungeon Master



Want to give your players a kingdom of their own? I made a 4e rule system to make it happen!

Your Kingdom awaits!


Update 5th Sep 2011: Added a sample kingdom, as well as sample of play.
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1 year ago  ::  Dec 20, 2011 - 12:26AM #55
mhbjarkistef
Date Joined: Sep 6, 2010
Posts: 998
I would love some utility powers to become Power Source based. For example, I think all divine characters should get Sun's Glow, Arcane characters get 2 cantrips etc. I think it's just riduculus that you can have two radiant at-will powers, but still can't use your powers to generate light equal to a flashlight...

I would like to see reduced casting time for rituals, and more love for rituals in general (for example in published campaigns).

Introduce a better way of training roleplayers. Those of us who where introduced to RPGs (pen n' paper) through 4e seem to lack a lot in the roleplay department. Why? The system allows roleplaying, it just... I don't know... 

Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.
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1 year ago  ::  Feb 15, 2012 - 6:47PM #56
mhbjarkistef
Date Joined: Sep 6, 2010
Posts: 998
Include a "Luck Roll" section in the "House Rules" section of the DMG.

Luck Rolls are a way for DM to never have to play nice or be "Evil DM". When a treent could either fall ontop of the person or the other way; Roll a Luck Roll. If its good: The Treent falls on one of his minions. If it's bad: You're ****ed. If its medium: It falls without affecting anything.

It also makes natural 1s more exciting. It means that if you roll a natural one, and a one on a luck die, you're ****ed. However, the chances of that are VERY slim so it will only happen enough times for it to be fun, bot not so many times that your multi-attack will go ape**** over it. 

Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.
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1 year ago  ::  May 19, 2012 - 12:42PM #57
Daethon
Date Joined: May 16, 2012
Posts: 61
Wow.  There are a lot of good complaints and ideas here. 

What are all these multiattack problems and battle time problems people are having?  What do you consider a multiattack?

Warlock wants Con instead of Cha?  Easy enough to homerule it.
I wouldn't like charm effects governed by Con, though.  I don't like weapon attacks (this is not in relation to warlocks, but classes in general) influenced so heavily by mental scores.  Maybe actually use Str or Dex and Half your applicable mental score.

Wizard work for me.  Perhaps Fighters (maybe most Martial) would have more basic at will, status affecting encounters (W damage and blind or prone or whatever), and no dailies.  Why encounter?  Because you can probably only pull off that little trick once in a group of enemies before they're kinda wise to it, but use it against the next group of enemies, for sure.

I'm fine going up 1 point every 2 levels for attack and defense.  It shows that myself and others of my level are vaguely equal, slightly better than those a level or 2 below me, and almost as good as those a level or 2 above me.  Example from AD&D: Warriors easily hit the mage who can't wear armor when they gain +1 attack (THAC0 goes down one) every level, but a mage of equally advanced level still can't hit a 1st level character because they practically haven't advanced at all [6th level: +5 for fighter vs. +1 mage].  Sorry for comparing to an older version.  This is not a "doesn't feel like what I know" complaint, not that "doesn't feel like what I know" isn't a valid complaint if that is what you love.

I may give skills variant skill modifiers.  Arcana/Religion use Int or Wis (you can know religious tenets without being wise and perhaps you have a feel for the arcane rather than book knowledge), Thievery is Int or Dex, Int to your Bluff or Diplomacy, Str or Int to your Intimidate, Int for Healing.  Those are just some options.

Just a note, not a complaint, but some Essentials material seems like an attempt to better incorporate 3.5 classes as 4e classes.
Parenthood: Gain rage class feature.  While enraged, take ongoing psychic damage equal to half the child's level.  Dealing damage while enraged is against your Code of Conduct and you will be depowered.

  ^^Wow, is that really how I came across in that personality thing or was this chosen at random?
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1 year ago  ::  May 20, 2012 - 2:07PM #58
Xynthoros
Date Joined: Aug 24, 2010
Posts: 726
Either make everything based off inherent bonuses or do away with them... as they are, they are almost always inferior to other availabe powers and have killed many otherwise well designed themes and paragon paths.
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13 months ago  ::  May 28, 2012 - 6:42AM #59
PrimeSonic
Date Joined: Apr 11, 2009
Posts: 353
Skynet2.0 said just about everything on my mind.

Dec 15, 2011 -- 11:17AM, SkyNet2.0 wrote:


If feats aren't equal don't put them in the same pool (i.e. 'always on' feats > situationally useful feats.  combat feats > non-combat feats. Don't put them all in one feat pool like they are equals). 




Feats need a complete overhaul, starting with categorizing them and correctly valuing them. Putting combat and non-combat or constant and situational feats in the same pool, competing against each other is just bad design these days.

I am currently thinking of ways to houserule this in my future games so my players can invest in both. (So far, my only idea is giving free non-combat feats on non-feat giving levels.)

Dec 15, 2011 -- 11:17AM, SkyNet2.0 wrote:


Dissolve the striker role and divvy the damage up amongst the other roles




While a bit shocking and controversial at first, I must admit that this is a really good idea. Everyone wants the glory of the striker. (I'm currently in a game where every player is playing a striker.)

But really the role of "do a lot of damage" can be given to everyone and the more tactically oriented roles (such as "protect the squishies", "keep that huge mob from overwhelming us", and "patch up the guys making the other guys dead") can be given their own little damage boosts, perhaps even in line with their special task.

Dec 15, 2011 -- 11:17AM, SkyNet2.0 wrote:


  • Re-work the hybrid system.  Relatively few combinations are functional or viable options for a PC to play.  
  • If the hybridization system is a lost cause - rework the MC system so that character customization isn't taxed so heavily (I'm looking at you power swap...). In my experience MC'ing more often than not is used for PC optimization not customization - the relatively big bonus for initially MC'ing combined with the feat cost to swap powers just further reinforces this behavior




It is true that the Hybrid system isn't for everyone or every combination. I would attribute that to it having never been an original design goal. Still, for what it is it can do okay. But I do agree that there needs to be a better functional alternative to hybrid and multiclassing where you can pick up features and powers to customize your original class without loosing so much in the process.

Dec 15, 2011 -- 11:17AM, SkyNet2.0 wrote:


  • Take another look at the cost/benefit system in general.  
    • A specific example: Defenders have the benefit of better armor protection at the cost of check penalties and speed reduction.  Many other builds can get their defenses as high (or higher) without paying any penalties.  Why?




So much yes to this. I find it almost absurd that a rouge with maxed out Dexterity can achieve equal or higher armor class than the guy in full plate with a heavy shield. Not to mention all the perks that come with high dexterity.
This could be fixed by allowing a greater benefit from shields, but then it throws off the system math so it's not an easy thing to fix. I sorta wish this could be addressed somehow.

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