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2 years ago ::
Dec 12, 2011 - 5:41PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Dec 17, 2008
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These races were introduced as major players in the Feywild and Shadowfell respectively in the Manual of the Planes, and had a couple of monsters in the MM2 and 3, but have been completely dropped since. They weren't even mentioned in any of the recent major supplements. What happened? Are we ever going to see any more material on them? They should have been new playable races in the Player's Option books.
It's things like this that continually make 4e feel so unpolished, they really need to put up more effort to maintain consistency in their material.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 13, 2011 - 11:01AM
#2
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These races were introduced as major players in the Feywild and Shadowfell respectively in the Manual of the Planes, and had a couple of monsters in the MM2 and 3, but have been completely dropped since. They weren't even mentioned in any of the recent major supplements. What happened? Are we ever going to see any more material on them? They should have been new playable races in the Player's Option books.
It's things like this that continually make 4e feel so unpolished, they really need to put up more effort to maintain consistency in their material.
Firbolgs are large size, and thus wouldn't make good PC races. Also, they were mentioned in the Heroes of the Feywild-supporting supplement, Character Themes: Born from the Feywild, since they originated the Wild Hunt. They were also mentioned in the Wild Hunt-related Epic Destiny in Heroes of the Feywild itself.
Dark Ones have been in many Shadow-themed articles since then, and at the very least appeared in artwork within Gloomwrought. However, they're not appropriate as a PC race without major reflavouring, since they're blood-thirsty murdrous traitors, the lot of them. They coexist with Shadar-kai and Shadowborn in Gloomwrought and other settlements, but that doesn't make them heroic. It would be like demanding Hobgoblins, Orcs, Bullywugs, and Duergar as PC races. They've got MM stats, but that doesn't mean they're appropriate. WotC decided Gnolls actually weren't appropriate, and shoved the fact they were supported under a rug.
Now, a LEGITIMATE complaint would be the lack of any details on the Dread Emperor in Gloomwrought and Beyond. I mean, he was like the most fluff-tastic element of the Shadowfell chapter in Manual of the Planes, and yet is completely absent in the box-set based on that Plane. I can only hope they have some big plans in store for this guy in a future supplement or adventure.
A great man once said "If WotC put out boxes full of free money there'd still be people complaining about how it's folded." – Boraxe
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2 years ago ::
Dec 13, 2011 - 11:30AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Dec 17, 2008
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These races were introduced as major players in the Feywild and Shadowfell respectively in the Manual of the Planes, and had a couple of monsters in the MM2 and 3, but have been completely dropped since. They weren't even mentioned in any of the recent major supplements. What happened? Are we ever going to see any more material on them? They should have been new playable races in the Player's Option books.
It's things like this that continually make 4e feel so unpolished, they really need to put up more effort to maintain consistency in their material.
Firbolgs are large size, and thus wouldn't make good PC races. Also, they were mentioned in the Heroes of the Feywild-supporting supplement, Character Themes: Born from the Feywild, since they originated the Wild Hunt. They were also mentioned in the Wild Hunt-related Epic Destiny in Heroes of the Feywild itself.
Dark Ones have been in many Shadow-themed articles since then, and at the very least appeared in artwork within Gloomwrought. However, they're not appropriate as a PC race without major reflavouring, since they're blood-thirsty murdrous traitors, the lot of them. They coexist with Shadar-kai and Shadowborn in Gloomwrought and other settlements, but that doesn't make them heroic. It would be like demanding Hobgoblins, Orcs, Bullywugs, and Duergar as PC races. They've got MM stats, but that doesn't mean they're appropriate. WotC decided Gnolls actually weren't appropriate, and shoved the fact they were supported under a rug.
Now, a LEGITIMATE complaint would be the lack of any details on the Dread Emperor in Gloomwrought and Beyond. I mean, he was like the most fluff-tastic element of the Shadowfell chapter in Manual of the Planes, and yet is completely absent in the box-set based on that Plane. I can only hope they have some big plans in store for this guy in a future supplement or adventure.
I can't rebut on the Firbolg bit, but that sure isn't the fluff for Dark Ones as I interpreted it from the Manual of the Planes. It compares them to halflings and says they coexist mostly peaceully among the shadar-kai. The monsters represented by them are also Unaligned, not evil, so I don't understand why they'd be considered so inappropriate. Also, those races are PC options! They just aren't fully supported.
I agree about the Dread Emperor also.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 13, 2011 - 11:17PM
#4
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since they're blood-thirsty murdrous traitors, the lot of them.
You mean like drow, shadar-kai or shades? 
But, as Einlanzer pointed out, "they're blood-thirsty murdrous traitors, the lot of them" isn't even an accurate summary of their official fluff anyway.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 14, 2011 - 1:14AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Sep 22, 2009
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Personally, I believe there are already enough "trickster races" in 4e for now, and Dark Ones also have the downside of being generally cruel and malicious. They also haven't got as much lore to be based on, compared to Pixies, Satyrs and Dryads. Besides, their flavor makes them sound like the bastard child of an unseelie fae and Belkar Bitterleaf, which is worse than kobolds.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 16, 2011 - 10:33AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2006
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Are firbolgs of 4th Ed like previous one? I like the idea of a giant (with a touch of fay) PC race who isn´t like goliaths, but they can be good heroes.
And about Dark Ones in my land we say people who has got "pocas luces" (= few lights) isn´t very inteligent. I don´t like the background of a civilitation where the light is banned/forbiden. Can´t they use fire? I would rather a "splaterpunk" shadar-kai or drow like PC race.
"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)
Book 13 Anaclet 23
Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"
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2 years ago ::
Dec 16, 2011 - 11:56AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Sep 22, 2009
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@Luis_Carlos: I think the names "Shadowfell", "Dark Ones", "Shadar-Kai" and "Shades" answer your question about light. Also, if you can see in the dark, you don't need light.
WotC have chosen not to make PC races that are larger than Medium, so I don't think they will allow Firbolgs. Also, Dragonborn, Minotaurs and Bugbears are about as large as Goliaths, if you are looking for alternatives. Bugbears can even use Large weapons.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 18, 2011 - 7:27AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Sep 23, 2011
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People were certain they wouldn't go tiny, yet here the pixies are.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 18, 2011 - 2:15PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2006
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But other races of shadow don´t hate the light like the Dark Ones.
And I don´t like bugbears like PCs because they are too stuypy, the clasic trite of muscle whitout brain. I would rather half-ogre. And the firbolg like PC could be so big like Goliath (only bigger by feats, paragon class and like this)
"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)
Book 13 Anaclet 23
Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"
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1 year ago ::
Dec 19, 2011 - 5:49AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Sep 22, 2009
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I think the names "Shadowfell", "Dark Ones", "Shadar-Kai" and "Shades" answer your question about light. Also, if you can see in the dark, you don't need light.
But other races of shadow don´t hate the light like the Dark Ones.
And I don´t like bugbears like PCs because they are too stuypy, the clasic trite of muscle whitout brain. I would rather half-ogre. And the firbolg like PC could be so big like Goliath (only bigger by feats, paragon class and like this)
All races hate the light if they choose to be a vampire - far more than Dark Ones do, since they take damage from being in the sun. In fact, most Drow fear the light of the sun as much as Dark Ones do. And "muscle without brain" is only how you choose to play it. You could play a Bugbear Wizard based on INT and WIS if you wanted to.
There are several problems with being Large, far more, in fact, than there are with Tiny PCs. Firbolgs are basically giants, while Goliaths are half-giants. By allowing people to play Firbolgs, WotC might as well allow us to play dragons, since we already have the Dragonborn...
I severely doubt that WotC make and release races based on how they think a single culture would receive them. Your country having a saying shouldn't change the setting for the rest of us. If you want to play a shadow creature who likes the light, talk to your DM about it. Just remember that the Dark Ones and other shadow creatures are supposed to be what they are - every single race or creature doesn't have to be playable nor should they neccesarily be changed in order to make everything seem alike. I mean, I'd like to be able to play a Mind Flayer, but that doesn't mean that I want WotC to change the general Mind Flayer race, since an offshoot, a random mutation or just magic is enough to justify it as a player race. But if WotC don't feel like it should be part of an official setting because of flavor or balance issues, or if WotC as a company wouldn't make a profit from doing the work, they shouldn't have to do it. I'll just bother my DM with it instead.
[/rant]
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