|
1 year ago ::
Dec 07, 2011 - 10:06AM
#1
|
Date Joined:
Aug 15, 2010
|
Ok, so I wanted to go through the different striker mechanics, weigh the pro's and con's, and determine a ranking between them.
So, the striker mechanics
Hunter's Quarry
Warlock's curse
Sneak Attack
Sorcerer's bonus
Shroud's
Attack Finesse
Barbarian's rampage
Avenger's Oath
Bladesinger's spellsongs
Slayer/Vamp/hexblade +second stat mechanics
Scout's DWA
Blackguard's bonuses
Monk's Flurry
(I think that's it, let me know if you think of any I missed.)
So yeah, thoughts on which is the best, pro's and con's of each, your favorite's, or any other comments on the mechanics themselves is much appreciated.
(PS: This is purely to be a discussion on the mechanics themselves, not the feasibility of the striker it comes from.)
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Dec 07, 2011 - 10:07AM
#2
|
Date Joined:
Aug 15, 2010
|
Reserved just incase. 
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Dec 07, 2011 - 11:33AM
#3
|
Date Joined:
Aug 26, 2011
|
Sneak attack is my personal favourite because
it's more damage and sits nicely with frost cheese.
Pros: bigger damage
Cons: more situational at lower levels.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Dec 07, 2011 - 11:37AM
#4
|
|
|
You forgot to add Censure's to the Avenger, Oath isn't their only striker mechanic. Same thing with the e-classes and Stances.
Adding Barbarian's Powers is ... not a striker Mechanic. Are you going to add Rangers Powers (more multi-attacks than anyone else), Rogues Powers (more minor actions), Sorcerers Powers (zone abuse), Defender Marks and Powers (reliable off-turn attacks). Point being that once you start involving powers, you're basically looking at "who is a better killer" and then you need to add what feats, items, PPs, EDs, and party synergy, and then it's just another "which class is better" thread. Don't head down that road.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection. My Guides
Show
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Dec 07, 2011 - 12:29PM
#5
|
Date Joined:
Jun 10, 2008
|
Dual-Weapon Attack is the only one that's really significant in its own right.
If you take feat support into account, Warlock's Curse and Sneak Attack are probably best. If you don't, Oath beats those, I think.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Dec 07, 2011 - 12:31PM
#6
|
|
|
The stances are not a striker feature they are effectively the at will power for classes like slayers.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Dec 07, 2011 - 1:16PM
#7
|
Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2007
|
Sorcerer-like fixed extra bonus damage is my favorite by a mile. Don't have to worry about conditions, don't have to worry about more/different dice, don't have to worry about minor actions (quarry/curse), combat advantage, charging, once per turn mechanics, and all that jazz. It's the fastest mechanic to resolve, and I have a hard time caring about much else these days... If the end result is going to be the same (i.e. striker level damage), just give it to me straight up.
Having said that, my second favorite is probably the monk flurry. Spreading striker overkill damage to another target is a fantastic mechanic.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Dec 07, 2011 - 1:28PM
#8
|
Date Joined:
May 11, 2009
|
Really, a lot of these are the same thing. You could reduce the list down to:
- Extra damage dice 1/turn (Hunter's Quarry, Warlock's Curse, Sneak Attack, Attack Finesse)
- Extra damage dice on specific powers (Barbarian at-wills, Berserk Fury, Dual-Weapon Attack)
- Secondary stat on all attacks (Spell Source, Heroic Slayer, Pact Reward, Hidden Might)
- Secondary stat on specific conditions (Censure, Dark Menace, Spirit of Vice)
- Secondary stat on target of your choice (Flurry of Blows, Bladesong)
- Triggered Pool (Shrouds, Darkspiral Aura)
- Accuracy Boost (Oath of Emnity)
Group 1 is the best type. There's an action and feat cost associated with it (except in the case of Attack Finesse where the cost is you have to make a weapon attack), but the reward is an average increase in damage of 13.5 points by epic (18 for sneak attack). Contrast that with the cap of 8 (9 if you take a stat-boosting ED) for group 3 (assuming you start with an 18 in the stat and boost it every chance). You pay for that ease of use and lack of swingy-ness. Interestingly enough, both of the classes that get group 5's method of bonus damage tend to (intentionally or otherwise) stress a strong secondary controller role. Also, both of the bonus damage types in group 6 tend to be difficult to use effectively. It's not such a big deal for a Dark Pact warlock since that's extra damage on top of their curse, but it effectively stymies the Ossassin. (Aside: I wonder if the easiest fix to the Ossassin would be just to give it Attack Finesse and Shrouds.)
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Dec 07, 2011 - 1:39PM
#9
|
Date Joined:
Feb 19, 2006
|
Really, a lot of these are the same thing. You could reduce the list down to:
- Extra damage dice 1/turn (Hunter's Quarry, Warlock's Curse, Sneak Attack, Attack Finesse)
- Extra damage dice on specific powers (Barbarian at-wills, Berserk Fury, Dual-Weapon Attack)
- Secondary stat on all attacks (Spell Source, Heroic Slayer, Pact Reward, Hidden Might)
- Secondary stat on specific conditions (Censure, Dark Menace, Spirit of Vice)
- Secondary stat on target of your choice (Flurry of Blows, Bladesong)
- Triggered Pool (Shrouds, Darkspiral Aura)
- Accuracy Boost (Oath of Emnity)
Group 1 is the best type. There's an action and feat cost associated with it (except in the case of Attack Finesse where the cost is you have to make a weapon attack), but the reward is an average increase in damage of 13.5 points by epic (18 for sneak attack). Contrast that with the cap of 8 (9 if you take a stat-boosting ED) for group 3 (assuming you start with an 18 in the stat and boost it every chance). You pay for that ease of use and lack of swingy-ness.
Interestingly enough, both of the classes that get group 5's method of bonus damage tend to (intentionally or otherwise) stress a strong secondary controller role.
Also, both of the bonus damage types in group 6 tend to be difficult to use effectively. It's not such a big deal for a Dark Pact warlock since that's extra damage on top of their curse, but it effectively stymies the Ossassin.
(Aside: I wonder if the easiest fix to the Ossassin would be just to give it Attack Finesse and Shrouds.)
Small correction, Hunter's Quarry is still 1/round.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Dec 07, 2011 - 1:40PM
#10
|
Date Joined:
Nov 23, 2003
|
Accuracy is silly important. I think Oath might be the most powerful raw striker feature. But ... There are other ways to get silly accurate, and most of them have a smaller opportunity cost than "your class". So Oath has heavily diminishing returns. Also, I disagree with Zathris that the censure bonuses should be considered a striker feature. IMHO, those are just soft-control features to force the DM to let you get your Oath on a regular basis. I also tend to think of Sneak Attack as equivilent to +Nd6. Yes, you get an extra die, but that just balances out the requirement for smaller weapons (and fails to properly balance that out on big-W powers). So:
- Static
No setup cost, easy to manage
Not maximized on a crit
- +Nd6, with a targeting action (Curse, Quarry)
Feat/Item support to supplement mark action can be significant
Action cost can get prohibitive
- +Nd6, with a condition (Sneak Attack)
Usually ends up looking like "Static", except maximized on a hit, and costs you a few more build options to negate the condition.
- Accuracy, with a targeting action (Oath)
Easily replaceble. High opportunity cost for declining benefit.
- Splash (Flurry of Blows)
Saves overkill, but harder to focus when overkill is not an issue
"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima
|
|
|
