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2 years ago ::
Dec 06, 2011 - 2:10PM
#11
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Date Joined:
Nov 17, 2009
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Teamwork is important. I can't say that it is the Artificer or the party's fault; but the party needs to be aware that there are buffs to be had, and the giving can be good if they allow it to be. For instance:
The Warlord grants attacks: Why isn't he granting attacks to whoever has the magic weapon buff? The buffs should stack. Is the party clustering up or spreading out? You're going to want a bit of clustering. Is the Ranger ranged or melee? Either way, the Artificer should be job shadowing the Ranger. It doesn't matter that the ranger can hit. It matters that the Ranger can hit better and can hit more often: those damage bonuses add up.
The problem is that you're comparing (what I expect) are early level Warlords and early level Artificers. Warlords are going to be stronger. It's an unideal fact. At higher levels, you'll see the Artificer start to make a bigger difference because #1: Warlords going to grant even more attacks and those attacks should be buffed by the Artificer, #2: Artificer gains some strong control powers, #3 Artificer gains stronger buffs.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 06, 2011 - 2:10PM
#12
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Date Joined:
Nov 17, 2011
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If he really likes the alchemy flavour, just houserule a bit and let him craft magical ammunition as though they were alchemical items. Some of that stuff can be pretty decent in combat.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 06, 2011 - 2:12PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2009
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You just need more party cooperation. The artificer needs to try to keep up with at least one striker, and it's worth the strikers' while to let him.
Magic weapon adds damage as well as a bonus to attack. That damage adds to both shots of Twin Strike, as well as the extra attack handed out by the warlord.
If he's a goblin though, he may not have much in his secondary stat (CON or WIS). That's going to hurt him in the long run because your secondary is pretty important for an Artificer. Come to think of it, goblin is probably one of the worst choices period for an artificer.
Honestly, since you already have a leader, I'd suggest he just try a different class if he wants to stick with the goblin alchemist concept. A fun alternative could be a wild magic sorcerer, with the chaotic powers described as different contraptions he's firing off. Oftentimes the best solution to fitting a character concept is to "refluff" an existing class into what you want, rather than just playing an artificer because they seem like the class that best fits an alchemist.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 06, 2011 - 2:15PM
#14
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The character concept is a gun slinging alchemist that infuses alchemicals into his ammo. Using the Alchemist Theme.
Thanks guys!
Alchemy is pointless in combat without Alchemist Savant.
With it, there's some fun things worth doing. Look at the Thunder Lizards in my .sig.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 06, 2011 - 2:30PM
#15
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@Scatterbrained: I think his actual race choice is githzerai, but in-game he's playing it as a goblin.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 06, 2011 - 4:11PM
#16
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Date Joined:
Oct 15, 2009
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If he really likes the alchemy flavour, just houserule a bit and let him craft magical ammunition as though they were alchemical items. Some of that stuff can be pretty decent in combat.
This is a really great suggestion, the artificer using his crossbow with 'Alchemical Ammunition" (reflavored magical ammunition) would do wonders for his ability to hit, deal interesting effects with decent damage and help support his team mates. Powers like Punishing Eye, Magic Weapon and Spike Wire (assuming Heroic Tier) will do amazing things. Feats like Mark of Healing can help save allys from nasty effects.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 06, 2011 - 5:37PM
#17
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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Yeah, focus on the Artificer powers and call them alchemy. If you're using your standard action for alchemy, you're not using it on leader powers. That said, there are some worthwhile alchemy options, just not (generally) in the attack formulae (maybe Clinging Essence, Woundpatches, Tension Wheels, Kinetic Oil, etc.). Furthermore, the Alchemy can make you quite versatile if you know what you're about to encounter next (to prep items to deal with resistances, particular energy types, terrain problems, etc.).
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2 years ago ::
Dec 06, 2011 - 6:53PM
#18
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If the Ranger and Warlock are running around finding concealment/cover, they are the problem. Delaying combat by actively making one character less effective is poor teamwork. Of course, the Artificer could just run after them (or stand next to the Defender and make the strikers jealous). Warlords have a huge advantage in the lazy department, they require all of 1 ally with a good basic attack to function well, Artificers are a bit more picky in terms of positioning; but the Artificer is always going to pale in comparison to the Warlord as a leader just like the Warlock is always going to pale in comparison to the Ranger as a striker.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection. My Guides
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2 years ago ::
Dec 06, 2011 - 8:49PM
#19
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but the Artificer is always going to pale in comparison to the Warlord as a leader just like the Warlock is always going to pale in comparison to the Ranger as a striker.
I disagree with this. Play a Superior Crossbow wielding Battle Engineer handing out +5 to +7 to hit to the whole party every fight (Greater Magic Weapon), you won't pale in comparison to any leader. (Not to mention surgeless healing, recharing items, and loads of free temps). Sure, a good Warlord might still be better, but its pretty close and the Artificer/Battle Engineer doesn't "pale in comparison." IMO, the bigger difference is that there are many more paths for Warlords, Artificers have a few well-worn ones.
For the original poster, I would recommend going ranged weapon (or a weapon that can be both) and buffing with magic weapon in heroic. Take punishing eye too -- that is a great level 1 daily; and look at some of the immediate action attacks -- very nice, especially since you might be spamming magic weapon anyway. Also, don't neglect the daily recharge feature -- get 2 uses out of the party's best magic weapons and make sure the party remembers it gets temps with daily magic item uses. Another nice feature.
Artificers, despite a limited number of powers and feats, are still quite strong and fun too.
Daren
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2 years ago ::
Dec 06, 2011 - 9:01PM
#20
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I didn't say Artificer's weren't good, nor did I say that about Warlocks. They just will never be as good as another class (Warlord and Ranger, respectively) given equal optimization, without additional relevant content.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection. My Guides
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