|
2 years ago ::
Dec 04, 2011 - 11:27AM
#1
|
|
|
I've heard stories about the old Bard, the bard of 3.5. I've heard he was a skill monkey like no other, he could move like a rogue, think like a wizard, cast spells like a sorcerer and had the presence of a Paladin and have all these cool Bard-only stuff. I've heard there is no situation too sticky for the bard. He is the ultimate troublemaker, he his everything above, yet still just a bard.
How can I make that class in 4e?
For those who know Nordic mythology, I want to play Loki. He's a troublemaker that still always cleans up his mess. People keep him around because even though he messes up everything for everybody, having him around keeps things interesting.
I want a skillmonkey with spells, rituals, utility, stealth and at least one strong melee attack.
Sounds like I need Arcane utility powers, ritual casting, high enough int for "Jack of all Trades", high enough DEX for stealth and thievery, and a HUGE array of trained skills. Who here wants to help me acieve this?
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Dec 04, 2011 - 11:35AM
#2
|
Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2010
|
Just... roll a 4e Bard. They're all like that.
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Dec 04, 2011 - 11:42AM
#3
|
|
|
Bards are still pretty darn good at that sort of thing.
Don't spread your stats too thin. Non-Skalds rely pretty heavily on their respective secondary stats, so assuming you want a Bard and not a Skald (yes, Skalds are Bards, but I hate the term "O-Bard"), I wouldn't worry about making sure you have really high stats for every skill you want. Racial bonuses, background bonuses, and item bonuses will cover a lot of ground towards making your skills good even without the right stat bonuses. Don't forget Bard of All Trades (+3 feat bonus to untrained skills; your untrained skills are now only 1 point behind your trained ones), Bardic Knowledge (+2 feat to Arc/Dun/Hist/Nat/Rel/Street checks), and/or Power of Skill (requires divine MC; +1 feat to all trained skills).
Human might be decent for the extra trained skill, and it also opens up Imperishable Destiny, which seems perfect for this kind of character.
Remember that Bards can take as many MC feats as they choose, and most (though not all) MC feats will give you a trained skill. If you choose carefully, you can get the majority of your skills trained just by picking the right MC feats.
As for a strong melee attack . . . there are several ways to get such a thing. Skalds have it out of the box, but honestly, I think you'd lose more than you'd gain by going Skald for this specific character. There's War Song Strike for CON-heavy Bards, if that's your thing. A half-elf with Eldritch Strike is just as good on a Bard as on anything else. Melee Training isn't a terrible option if you know you'll need a lot of MBAs (for instance, if you've got a Warlord in your party), but it's not worth it in a vacuum. Melee Bards are, out of the box, based on CON as a secondary, which doesn't help your skills much . . . so you might have to make a choice there.
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Dec 04, 2011 - 1:18PM
#4
|
Date Joined:
May 12, 2011
|
Sounds like I need Arcane utility powers, ritual casting, high enough int for "Jack of all Trades", high enough DEX for stealth and thievery, and a HUGE array of trained skills. Who here wants to help me acieve this?
First of all, don't take Jack of all trades, take Bard of all trades. Combined with your bardic knack, you get a +4 to all untrained skills.
The next goal is to balance your stats well enough to actually be good at them.
I prefer wand weilding cunning bards,
and build with this array:
S 8, Co 14, D 13, Int 14+2, W 10, Ch16+2
This gives you decent HP and Fort. Your Reflex and Will end up sky high since you put all gained points into cha/int.
Wear hide and a sheild and you will have about the same AC as a Rogue or Ranger
If you want a strong melee attack there are a few low level options, I particularly like Guiding Strike as an at-will (+att & dmg are both Cha, so again strength isn't an issue), just use a songblade or MC Swordmage.
EDIT - Fixed the score for Wis (i originally typo'd it at 14).
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Dec 04, 2011 - 2:27PM
#5
|
Date Joined:
Mar 15, 2008
|
S 8, Co 14, D 13, Int 14+2, W 14, Ch16+2
Is that the standard array, because it's way off on point buy.
"Not only are you wrong, but I even created an Excel spreadsheet to show you how wrong you are." --James Wyatt, May 2006
Dilige, et quod vis fac
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Dec 04, 2011 - 2:32PM
#6
|
Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2010
|
No; standard array is point-buy-able.
I assume those are rolled scores.
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Dec 04, 2011 - 3:00PM
#7
|
Date Joined:
May 12, 2011
|
Sorry, Typo'd stats, Wis shoulda been 10, I'll fix.
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Dec 04, 2011 - 6:53PM
#8
|
|
|
A standard Cunning Bard would do just well plenty of those things, I'd say, perhaps with a multiclass or two in Rogue. Alternatively, you could go for a CHA/DEX Skald with Rogue multiclass.
But honestly? I see Loki more as a Cunning Sneak Rogue than a Bard proper.
Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal. But the good name never dies of one who has done well.
Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal. But I know one thing that never dies: the glory of the great dead.
- Hávamál
D&D 4th Edition Bard builds: The Dashing Swordsman, The Master of Sound and Illusions, The Warrior Skald
Captain Morality! (No point in not having fun with it. ;-))
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Dec 04, 2011 - 8:24PM
#9
|
|
|
Unless my mythology is way off-base, I recall Loki being a patron of technology/skill/information, which to me really makes him a Bard/Rogue or a Bard|Rogue. And all the advice so far is pretty good, IMO.
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Dec 04, 2011 - 8:34PM
#10
|
|
|
Unless my mythology is way off-base, I recall Loki being a patron of technology/skill/information, which to me really makes him a Bard/Rogue or a Bard|Rogue. And all the advice so far is pretty good, IMO.
Most of the sources I can dredge up give Loki the aspects of lies, mischief, strife, fire and evil in various combinations.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
|
|
|
