|
1 year ago ::
Dec 02, 2011 - 6:27PM
#1
|
Date Joined:
Jan 27, 2010
|
I was looking at how much the task of awarding xp has changed across all the editions of D&D. I think it's obvious that 4e has made our job easy, but are we missing something? In 4e there are 3 ways to earn xp: combat, skill challenges, and quests. In comparison here is what the 2e DMG says regarding awarding xp.
Common Individual Awards
Player has a clever idea 50-100
Player has an idea that saves the party 100-500
Player role-plays his character well* 100-200
Player encourages others to participate 100-200
Defeating a creature in a single combat XP value/creature
*This award can be greater if the player character sacrifices some game advantage to
role-play his character. A noble fighter who refuses a substantial reward because it would
not be in character qualifies.
Warrior
Per Hit Die of creature defeated 10 XP/level
Priest
Per successful use of a granted power 100 XP
Spells cast to further ethos 100 XP/spell level*
Making potion or scroll XP value
Making permanent magical item XP value
Wizard
Spells cast to overcome foes or problems 50 XP/spell level
Spells successfully researched 500 XP/spell level
Making potion or scroll XP value
Making permanent magical item XP value
Rogue
Per successful use of a special ability 200 XP
Per gold piece value of treasure obtained 2 XP
Per Hit Die of creatures defeated (bard only) 5 XP * The priest character gains experience for those spells which, when cast, support the
beliefs and attitudes of his mythos. Thus, a priest of a woodland deity would not gain
experience for using an entangle spell to trap a group of orcs who were attacking his
party, since this has little to do with the woodlands. If the priest were to use the same
spell to trap the same orcs just as they were attempting to set fire to the forest, the
character would gain the bonus.
I really do like awarding the player xp for a good ideas and casting rituals to overcome foes or problems. It might encourage players to be a little more active in the game. XP for furthering a priests ethos was also a great idea because it helped encourage the player to be mindful of his faith.
It's kind of funny that in 3e you lost xp for creating magical items but in 2e you gained it.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Dec 02, 2011 - 6:41PM
#2
|
Date Joined:
Sep 22, 2006
|
I think it's better to reward things like this with dice roll bonuses rather than experience. Easier to balance encounters and such. But, it's still a good idea. A paragraph like the first one would be a nice addition to a DMG.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Dec 02, 2011 - 6:49PM
#3
|
|
|
I think it's better to reward things like this with dice roll bonuses rather than experience.
I agree, particularly since most people I know don't even award XP, we just level up at appropriate times. XP is just a pacing mechanism, nothing more; it would be another fine thing to chuck in a future edition and just provide guidelines on pacing.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Dec 02, 2011 - 6:59PM
#4
|
Date Joined:
Aug 30, 2010
|
I think it's better to reward things like this with dice roll bonuses rather than experience.
Thirded.
Also, in my experience, the clever thinking that gets rewarded often has a healthy amount of metagaming involved. Just my experience.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Dec 02, 2011 - 8:43PM
#5
|
Date Joined:
Oct 17, 2010
|
I agree, particularly since most people I know don't even award XP, we just level up at appropriate times. XP is just a pacing mechanism, nothing more; it would be another fine thing to chuck in a future edition and just provide guidelines on pacing.
Ah, but not true. XP is also a carrot. A very powerful carrot, especially if you are entirely willing to have a party with different levelled characters in it (at a minimal extent, like one or two levels each way, it's not as bad as you'd imagine). Getting a +1 to hit once is not a reward a player will get behind to do things he would ordinarily be reluctant to do, but if you offer him 25 experience points, suddenly he's giving you all sorts of useful feedback about the entire adventure, and writing up backstories, and all these other things. Experience points, I find, are an even more powerful reward than a magic weapon or armor precisely for the same reason - a +1 isn't exciting, a new power or feat is very exciting.
While not in all campaigns is the use of XP appropriate, where it has potential for use it has potential to cause serious incentives towards following the intended theme of a campaign. If your campaign is about exploration, and you give players XP for drawing maps, and you give players XP for piecing together write-ups of history scraps they discover, they're going to start doing those things a lot more often!
XP is, in essence, the DM's best tool for designing his (or her) own take on D&D, and maybe it varies by the campaign they run, or even by adventure, or perhaps they always run the same thing, but it follows the most important principle of game design: "How am I going to reward goal-seeking behavior?" If you don't play with XP you lose a very powerful weapon in your quest as a DM to reward goal-seeking behavior, and running the game becomes a lot harder unless it's a very particular type of game you are running (notably closed table/narrative, although they might be others).
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Dec 02, 2011 - 9:20PM
#6
|
Date Joined:
Jan 27, 2010
|
I think it's better to reward things like this with dice roll bonuses rather than experience.
I agree, particularly since most people I know don't even award XP, we just level up at appropriate times. XP is just a pacing mechanism, nothing more; it would be another fine thing to chuck in a future edition and just provide guidelines on pacing.
Yes, it really has become a pacing mechanism. It never used to be that way and I'm not really sure it should be that way. I guess I just miss awarding xp out when players role play or come up with a good idea on the spot.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Dec 02, 2011 - 10:02PM
#7
|
Date Joined:
Aug 30, 2010
|
Ah, but not true. XP is also a carrot. A very powerful carrot, especially if you are entirely willing to have a party with different levelled characters in it (at a minimal extent, like one or two levels each way, it's not as bad as you'd imagine). Getting a +1 to hit once is not a reward a player will get behind to do things he would ordinarily be reluctant to do, but if you offer him 25 experience points, suddenly he's giving you all sorts of useful feedback about the entire adventure, and writing up backstories, and all these other things. Experience points, I find, are an even more powerful reward than a magic weapon or armor precisely for the same reason - a +1 isn't exciting, a new power or feat is very exciting.
If I want my players to do something, I just make it matter. You map the maze because its layout matches the correct key to the door that won't kill your characters. You give me a backstory because characters who have backstory get more time in the spotlight than those that don't, and they have more say in how the campaign goes.
If I have to bribe the players with XP to do something, it probably isn't worth doing in the first place.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Dec 02, 2011 - 10:08PM
#8
|
Date Joined:
Oct 19, 2008
|
I think it's better to reward things like this with dice roll bonuses rather than experience.
I agree, particularly since most people I know don't even award XP, we just level up at appropriate times. XP is just a pacing mechanism, nothing more; it would be another fine thing to chuck in a future edition and just provide guidelines on pacing.
Yes, it really has become a pacing mechanism. It never used to be that way and I'm not really sure it should be that way. I guess I just miss awarding xp out when players role play or come up with a good idea on the spot.
The biggest problem with that is then some character are always going to have more experience and be "better" than others because their player is better at making stuff up. Instead of rewarding their situational inventiveness with a single reward (bonuses to dice rolls, for an example, or an inexpensive consumable), awarding XP for things like this actually punishes any player who isn't the kind that can think fast on their feet. And unlike those dice rolls or single consumables, XP stays around. It always has been a pacing mechanism, it just used to be used to track the pace at which players could out-think each other and the DM, and now it's used to track how well they all work as a team. The intent is the same (to track progression), but the mode (single players competing against each other and the DM vs. Players working together to overcome challenges created by the DM) has changed.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- )Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition.Salla: opinionated, but commonly right. fun quotes
Show
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Dec 03, 2011 - 8:34AM
#9
|
Date Joined:
Oct 17, 2010
|
If I want my players to do something, I just make it matter. You map the maze because its layout matches the correct key to the door that won't kill your characters. You give me a backstory because characters who have backstory get more time in the spotlight than those that don't, and they have more say in how the campaign goes.
If I have to bribe the players with XP to do something, it probably isn't worth doing in the first place.
So I take it your game has no treasure either, then? Because that's a "bribe", too, you know. So is the amount of time in the spotlight you give them. These are all rewards that encourage certain kinds of behavior. If you want to purposefully avoid a potential reward structure that's fine but it's not the only way to play - I don't tell you that treasure is pointless because "I don't bribe my players into killing the dragon".
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Dec 03, 2011 - 8:50AM
#10
|
Date Joined:
Aug 11, 2006
|
> I really do like awarding the player xp for a good ideas and casting rituals
> to overcome foes or problems.
If they've overcome a challenge through these methods then they get the XP for doing so just as much as if they smashed their way through.
--
Tossing out XP as an advancement mechanic is probably still a better idea though.
|
|
|
