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Nov 26, 2011 -- 1:13PM, Krusk wrote:

It was also interesting to see how different the old complaints were from todays. "too many books at a time, no VTT, skill challenges, multiclassing"..... basically the same stuff.

Notably, these are perennial complaints:
• too many rules ("books")
• not enough digital support ("VT")
• problems with compatability with noncombat encounters ("skill challenges")
• problems with customizing ("multiclassing")

Nov 27, 2011 -- 11:11AM, wrecan wrote:

Nov 27, 2011 -- 9:16AM, Dane_McArdy wrote:

But what DID happen is that at GenCon one year, they flat out said there would be no 4th edition, and then the next year, they announced 4th edition, and I was there, so no a friend told me.

This is the first I've ever heard that a developer announced at GenCon 2006 that "there would be no 4th edition".  (Did they mean ever?!)  Who is "they"?  Was it at some Q&A session?  A panel? 

I can only find the same references as Krusk -- a statement by Scott Rouse at DDXP 2007 that got misquoted, and lots of hearsay of hearsay (none fof which talks about anything that happened at GenCon 2006).  One would think that someone would have reported this representation at GenCon 2006 at some point within the intervening six years.

Is it possible you're thinking of DDXP 2007, which is the convention in which Scott Rouse said 4e was not coming out "soon", but people often thought he meant "ever"?  That's the one quote that's been confirmed by any developer about 4e before 4e was announced.

It's not the first I've heard of it mentioned.

But that doesn't matter. Nor am I here to prove anything, because I was there. It was not someone associated with WoTC, but at the WoTC address, they said at that time, they were not working on 4E. The next year, they announced that 4E would be coming out in 2008, and that they had spent two years developing it.

I know what I heard and saw. I remember all the talk for the rest of the day and weekend, was about 4E coming out, and specifically, how WoTC had been denying that's what was going to happen just the year before.

Also, I don't mind if no one believes me, because like I said, I was there.

And no, I am not thinking of DDXP, because I have never gone. I've only gone to GenCon for gaming conventions.

Nov 28, 2011 -- 12:17PM, edwin_su wrote:

Nov 28, 2011 -- 11:57AM, Dane_McArdy wrote:

Nov 27, 2011 -- 11:11AM, wrecan wrote:

Nov 27, 2011 -- 9:16AM, Dane_McArdy wrote:

But what DID happen is that at GenCon one year, they flat out said there would be no 4th edition, and then the next year, they announced 4th edition, and I was there, so no a friend told me.

This is the first I've ever heard that a developer announced at GenCon 2006 that "there would be no 4th edition".  (Did they mean ever?!)  Who is "they"?  Was it at some Q&A session?  A panel? 

I can only find the same references as Krusk -- a statement by Scott Rouse at DDXP 2007 that got misquoted, and lots of hearsay of hearsay (none fof which talks about anything that happened at GenCon 2006).  One would think that someone would have reported this representation at GenCon 2006 at some point within the intervening six years.

Is it possible you're thinking of DDXP 2007, which is the convention in which Scott Rouse said 4e was not coming out "soon", but people often thought he meant "ever"?  That's the one quote that's been confirmed by any developer about 4e before 4e was announced.

It's not the first I've heard of it mentioned.

But that doesn't matter. Nor am I here to prove anything, because I was there. It was not someone associated with WoTC, but at the WoTC address, they said at that time, they were not working on 4E. The next year, they announced that 4E would be coming out in 2008, and that they had spent two years developing it.

I know what I heard and saw. I remember all the talk for the rest of the day and weekend, was about 4E coming out, and specifically, how WoTC had been denying that's what was going to happen just the year before.

Also, I don't mind if no one believes me, because like I said, I was there.

And no, I am not thinking of DDXP, because I have never gone. I've only gone to GenCon for gaming conventions.

address, they said at that time, they were not working on 4E
The next year, they announced that 4E would be coming out in 2008, and that they had spent two years developing it

strangly enough both statements can be true.
maybe they where developing new ideas for 3.5 new layout and things like that,
much like the changes between 3rd and 3.5  and the changes between 4th and essentials.
so at this time their developing but the goal isen't a new edition
and the remark we are not working on 4th edition was made.

later on during the development of that rules overhaul so many new ideas came up that after a while they decided that this coulden't just be a rules update but would be a whole new edition instead.
so now suddenly al the development done for a major rules update becomes part of developing a new edition.

From the presentation, you could tell, it was ALWAYS meant to be a revamp, not new stuff for 3.5.

That was the whole campaign behind the announcement of 4E, that it was going to be a cleaner, streamlined game with less confusing rules and mechanics (Grappling, I'm looking at you!).

So, while that's an interesting suggestion, I don't think it flies.