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Switch to Forum Live View Mul Berserker (Defender/Striker)
1 year ago  ::  Nov 21, 2011 - 9:44AM #1
matiez
Date Joined: Nov 18, 2011
Posts: 16
I have built a Berserker out to lvl 10 for an upcoming Dark Sun game. The concept is an Arena Fighter akin to the Dwarven Slayers from Warhammer (2 handed weapon, no armor, eat's face in battle). We're starting at lvl 1, but I built him out to lvl 10 for sanity sake.

Garoth the Bloodstained, Berserker lvl 10

Str 18
Con 14
Dex 16
Int    8
Wis 10
Cha 12

Feats:
1 Dwarven Weapon Training
2 Unarmored Agility
4 World Serpent's Grasp
6 Headsman's Chop
8 Spear Expertise
10 Improved Defenses

Powers:
A: Stalk and Strike
A: Run Down
1E: Batter Down
1D: Thunder Hooves Rage
2U: Shrug it off
3E: Brutal Slam
5D: Feral Rampage OR Silver Phoenix Rage
6U: Run Rampant OR Cull Weakness
7E: Curtain of Steel OR Deny Escape
9D: Eye of the Maelstrom OR Oak Hammer Rage
10U: Howl of the Alpha Wolf

Weapons:
Gouge

I'm leaving myself some room in 5-10 to fill either Striker or Defender roles as they come up. Also, a lot of the powers seem situational, so I'm waiting to see how the game progresses before making the final decision. Any suggestions for optimizing the build further?
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1 year ago  ::  Nov 21, 2011 - 9:51AM #2
Enaloindir
Date Joined: Nov 11, 2003
Posts: 141
In my experience, the combo World Serpent's Grasp+Headman's Chop is difficult to pull off because the enemies will simply stand up before your turn comes up again. It might be better for your melee allies to grab Headman's Chop.

Resilience of Stone is also a very nice feat for any Mul... 
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1 year ago  ::  Nov 21, 2011 - 9:52AM #3
Limond
Date Joined: Jun 18, 2008
Posts: 299
IIRC Dwarven Weapon Training doesn't give proficiency with a gouge. So need to change something there. I would also drop charsima or con some more to pump more points into dex. This seems to be more of a striker then a defender so giving up more con isn't that big of an issue. 
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1 year ago  ::  Nov 21, 2011 - 10:37AM #4
Lord_Ventnor
  • Heroic Dungeon Master
Date Joined: Jul 9, 2008
Posts: 5,399

Nov 21, 2011 -- 9:52AM, Limond wrote:

IIRC Dwarven Weapon Training doesn't give proficiency with a gouge. So need to change something there. I would also drop charsima or con some more to pump more points into dex. This seems to be more of a striker then a defender so giving up more con isn't that big of an issue. 




Uh... yeah, it does. DWT gives training with all Axes and Hammers, superior ones included. Also, getting a Dex higher than 16 on a Mul is kind of build-point intensive, so I don't think it's really worth it.

Anyway, looks good. As was mentioned, Headsman's Chop is a little iffy considering that it mostly relies on your allies knocking guys prone. If they do, great, keep it! If not, Berserk Vitality will give you some extra toughness every time you enter a Fury, so that might be good.

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1 year ago  ::  Nov 21, 2011 - 10:44AM #5
Limond
Date Joined: Jun 18, 2008
Posts: 299
Strange, I thought since it was a dual group type (Sear and Axe) DWT didn't apply. Well Guess I get to go retrain a few of my characters now that I learned that tidbit.
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1 year ago  ::  Nov 21, 2011 - 11:21AM #6
Lord_Ventnor
  • Heroic Dungeon Master
Date Joined: Jul 9, 2008
Posts: 5,399

Nov 21, 2011 -- 10:44AM, Limond wrote:

Strange, I thought since it was a dual group type (Sear and Axe) DWT didn't apply. Well Guess I get to go retrain a few of my characters now that I learned that tidbit.




An Axe is an Axe, even if it is also a spear, a polearm, or a heavy blade. It just has those things in addition to its axe-ness.

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1 year ago  ::  Nov 21, 2011 - 11:46AM #7
Myztek
Date Joined: Nov 12, 2002
Posts: 1,240
DWT does give you Gouge, although it probably shouldn't from a balance perspective. 

One strong consideration for gouge barbarians should be fighter-multiclass and novice power to get Rain of Blows.  Three attacks on the same target is a huge benefit.  You have the dexterity for it.  If you're going to multi-class into fighter, the best option is Battle Awareness, but you do not meet the wisdom prerequisite.  You could get there now by dropping constitution and charisma, but that is a pretty hefty cost. Instead, I'd change you charisma bonus to wisdom, grab a different multi-class now, and then swap the multi-class feat once you get to paragon levels and you et the auto +1 to wisdom to meet the prerequisite.

There are also a number of great fighter class spear feats that work will with a barbarian that will do some charging, etc... 

If I were going to roughly follow your plan, my feats would be:

1.) DWT
2.) Spear Expertise (SE)
4.) Retrain SE -> Fighter Multiclass, Novice Power: Rain of Blows
6.) SE
8.) Unarmored
10.) Improved Defenses 
 

D&D & Boardgames
If I have everything I need to run great games for many years without repeating stuff, why do I need to buy anything right now?
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1 year ago  ::  Nov 21, 2011 - 12:58PM #8
matiez
Date Joined: Nov 18, 2011
Posts: 16
There was no good reason for a 12 Cha, TBH. I was planning on swapping some stuff around depending on feat selection.

Rain of Blows at 4th lvl worries me a little. At that point, I have Batter Down (Martial) and Brutal Slam (Primal). I want to have the option of entering Fury every encounter, so I'm fairly stuck on 1 primal, meaning we're talking about swapping Batter Down for Rain of Blows.

Batter Down: 2W + Prone
Rain of Blows: 3 1W attacks

Which is better?

As for Headsman's Chop, I though standing provoked an OA? Therefore, I spend my round knocking them down with Run Down+WSG and then get +5 dmg on the OA. I'm taking it this isn't how that works. I agree, though, that this looks more like a Striker build and will therefore swap Headsman's Chop for Berserker's Vitality.

I'm now contemplating the necessity of WSG in this build... Something more survivy and less controlly would be better suited...
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1 year ago  ::  Nov 21, 2011 - 11:57PM #9
ThaneRhogar
Date Joined: Feb 9, 2011
Posts: 382
1) Rain of Blows is way better damage than Batter down.  Getting your modifiers three times makes a huge difference, and it's some striking you can do without dropping your defender aura.  Proning is good, but...

2) Standing does NOT provoke an OA, it just wastes the enemy's move action to stand up, so given that being prone makes them grant CA, pretty much every enemy will stand up when it can (unless you're doing KAM cheese or something else that triggers off knocking them down again).  Given that,

3) I think WSG is good if you're taking Run Down, because once you slow that enemy, whether it moves or shifts to get away from you, you can knock it over.  That's pretty solid at will proning (it takes two attacks, but since it will always interrupt their attempt to move, that's not a big problem).  Given that, you might not need an encounter power for proning.  If you want one, I like the level 3 primal one from PrP that prones, pushes, and does 1d8+mods to an enemy adjacent after the push.  Of course, being level 3, that precludes Rain of Blows...

4) I do recommend finding space for Berserk Vitality.  In encounters that you plan to spend mostly in striker mode, it's a solid HP buffer.  In encounters where you get beat down while defending, it can keep you alive for awhile when you flip the switch. 
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1 year ago  ::  Nov 22, 2011 - 7:10AM #10
matiez
Date Joined: Nov 18, 2011
Posts: 16
You make really good points. That means I have 8 feats to fit into 6 slots...

Dwarven Weapon Training
Unarmored Agility
World Serpent's Grasp
Spear Expertise
Improved Defenses
Fighter MC (Battle Awareness, Swapping Cha and Wis and +1 Wis at 4 to qualify)
Novie Power: Rain of Blows to replace Batter Down
Berserker's Vitality

I'm thinking either:

1) DWT
2) UA
4) Retrain UA -> Battle Awareness; NP -> Rain of Blows
6) UA
8) Berserker's Vitality
10) Imp Defenses

OR

1) DWT
2) UA
4) WSG
6) Berserker's Vitality
8) Spear Expertise
10) Imp Defenses

The first option if I feel more Striker as I level and the second option if I feel I need to fill the Defender role more.
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