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1 year ago ::
Nov 22, 2011 - 5:34AM
#81
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You seem to be forgetting that there is already a D&D race with a strictly prescribed dark skin colour, and hey look, nobody really gives a hoot
Ah, yes. The *only* dark-skinned race, who are both Always Chaotic Evil and strawman-misandrist. Because dark-skinned societies are always evil, and female-dominated societies are always evil. Oh, and in order for a character to not have white skin, they need to no longer be human.
(We're not "forgetting" the Drow, more "trying to pretend they don't exist". Because wow, they're problematic even by Classic D&D Standards. And *yes*, people "give a hoot" about that)
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1 year ago ::
Nov 22, 2011 - 5:42AM
#82
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2010
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Except that virtually all Drow these days are Drizz't clones, and therefore, chaotic good guys trying to throw off their ancestral evil stupidity  But yeah, D&D has some stupid character race design. However, this is still not the thread for the discussion. And they're still not intended to threaten anyone in real life society, which is the substance of the analogy. Seriously. If you feel threatened by this particular fantasy fiction, dumb and offensive though it may occasionally be, you may need to get out more, there are FAR worse things in the world to worry about.
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1 year ago ::
Nov 22, 2011 - 5:53AM
#83
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(edited) In the context of D&D, the default setting must be openended enough to reasonably accommodate the spirititual-philosophical worldviews of any hero that a player CHOOSES. Monotheism, polytheism, atheism, and other self-identifying worldviews MATTER ... very much ... for many players who roleplay the hero of their choosing. WOTC must make the game more inclusive, to welcome ALL potential customers.
Moderated by
ORC_Booker
on Nov 22, 2011 - 02:55PM
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1 year ago ::
Nov 22, 2011 - 6:04AM
#84
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2010
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And, (even if we take your point, which I would dispute anyway, who are you to say what the default setting must or must not allow? The RPG police?) as we've been trying to drill into your head for 3 pages, the system is plenty open enough for that. You might have to change some of the flavour, but that's what role playing is all about. If you don't like an explicitly polytheistic setting, play in a setting which is not explicitly polytheistic. You have an imagination, I presume? Use it a bit.
The game has a broad base of customers already - people of all real-world faiths, belief systems, or absences of the above - people who are perfectly OK with playing characters which fit the default setting, AND people who have changed the default setting, as ALL the books suggest, to fit their own ideas of how they want to play.
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1 year ago ::
Nov 22, 2011 - 6:07AM
#85
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as we've been trying to drill into your head for 3 pages.
That is hostile, and demonstrates the point: The D&D community is hostile to any monotheists with any grievances about the D&D tradition.
The game itself explicitly and aggressively rejects monotheism. Reallife customers who identify with monotheism are deeply unwelcome.
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1 year ago ::
Nov 22, 2011 - 6:09AM
#86
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In the context of D&D, the default setting must be openended enough to reasonably accommodate the spirititual-philosophical worldviews of any hero that a player CHOOSES. Monotheism, polytheism, atheism, and other self-identifying worldviews MATTER ... very much ... for many players who roleplay the hero of their choosing.
You want a game about wizards to, by default, make it "reasonable" to play a character who doesn't believe in magic?
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1 year ago ::
Nov 22, 2011 - 6:16AM
#87
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Date Joined:
May 13, 2009
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While I don't neccesarily care, I think a polytheistic game allows for far more interesting stories. If you have only one deity then he's either going to be really far removed (as in; nobody can say for sure he exists, like in the real world) or everybody in the world is going to be his follower, which basically leaves room for exactly one religion that everybody will follow.
That's really really limiting to the game. It might be nice for a single setting or such, but as a default it's going to strip out a lot of options.
Epic Dungeon Master Want to give your players a kingdom of their own? I made a 4e rule system to make it happen! Your Kingdom awaits!Update 5th Sep 2011: Added a sample kingdom, as well as sample of play.
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1 year ago ::
Nov 22, 2011 - 6:20AM
#88
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That is hostile, and demonstrates the point: The D&D community is hostile to any monotheists with any grievances about the D&D tradition.
That's actually a different argument - the "community" is not the game, and it's not just "monotheists" who get treated that way. Anyone who says "the default is bad/wrong/offensive", for any reason, gets fanboy rage - on *any* topic that has fans, whether the speaker has a point or not.
The game itself explicitly and aggressively rejects monotheism. Reallife customers who identify with monotheism are deeply unwelcome.
The first, yes, but not specifically. It also specifically rejects atheism and disbelief in magic and knowledge of science and history and sociology just about every real-world variant on polytheism I can imagine, by presenting a *fantastic* setting where nothing works like in the real world. It then, outright, provides hints for how to add those things if you want to. Which is not exactly "aggressive".
The second? No, I disagree. The presentation of a magic-exists setting is not "unwelcoming" to players who don't believe in magic, especially when nothing is ever even hinted as being "like in the real world". The presentation of a magic-less game setting is not "unwelcoming" to people who do believe in magic. The presentation of a polytheistic setting is not "unwelcoming" to non-polytheists.
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1 year ago ::
Nov 22, 2011 - 6:23AM
#89
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2010
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as we've been trying to drill into your head for 3 pages.
That is hostile, and demonstrates the point: The D&D community is hostile to any monotheists with any grievances about the D&D tradition.
The game itself explicitly and aggressively rejects monotheism. Reallife customers who identify with monotheism are deeply unwelcome.
If you wish to see hostility, you will see it. We, the posters in this thread, are not the community as a whole, and we have, perhaps, been somewhat aggressive (for which I am more than happy to apologise for my part in) but in no way has that been towards your beliefs. We have been trying, with decreasing patience, to try to help you understand that the game is only as threatening and 'aggressively anti-monotheistic' as you want it to be. Which, apparently, is a lot.
The game does none of those things (indeed, please provide a quotation where it 'explicitly and aggressively rejects monotheism'). I never noticed anything in my books to that end. The game is an inanimate fictional construct. It does nothing aggressively. The books provide several fictional settings, most of which are explicitly polytheistic, and then go on to frequently say that these are suggestions only, and if you prefer other things, you should play what YOU want to play. If anything, it's the opposite to what you suggest. A suggested setting, followed by many, many suggestions that you can do whatever you feel like, when you feel like it, is not aggressively anything.
Also, just because it's really bugging me: real life is two words, possibly hyphenated in context. It is not one word 
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1 year ago ::
Nov 22, 2011 - 6:24AM
#90
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While I don't neccesarily care, I think a polytheistic game allows for far more interesting stories. If you have only one deity then he's either going to be really far removed (as in; nobody can say for sure he exists, like in the real world) or everybody in the world is going to be his follower, which basically leaves room for exactly one religion that everybody will follow.
That's really really limiting to the game. It might be nice for a single setting or such, but as a default it's going to strip out a lot of options.
A lot of options *for stories about High-Fantasy Heroes*, I would like to clarify.
And, since D&D is directly and specifically about high-fantasy heroes, this makes for a perfectly sensible design decision.
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