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2 years ago ::
Nov 19, 2011 - 7:09PM
#11
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Date Joined:
Jun 20, 2009
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The biggest problem with mixing 4eE and O4e is mixed groups of monsters. O4e brutes, soldiers, and controllers protecting 4eE artillary, skirmishers, and lurkers makes for a pretty brutal encounter.
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2 years ago ::
Nov 20, 2011 - 6:34AM
#12
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Date Joined:
Jun 29, 2007
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The biggest problem with mixing 4eE and O4e is mixed groups of monsters. O4e brutes, soldiers, and controllers protecting 4eE artillary, skirmishers, and lurkers makes for a pretty brutal encounter.
...if you consider MM3 an Essentials product...? 
Also, brutes got arguably the biggest increase in power as of MM3 in the form of a +2 bonus to-hit on all their attacks. Soldiers didn't fare poorly, either - they lost their accuracy bonus on attacks, but can now do reasonable damage instead of, for example, the comical 1d12+7 at mid-Paragon.
The general advice is to use MM3 and later monsters, or else to mathematically fix older ones. It has nothing to do with your Essentials question. If you're running Madness at Gardmore Abbey, this should all be taken care of for you.
-O
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2 years ago ::
Nov 20, 2011 - 12:58PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2001
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Thanks for your responses. I am very new to "Essentials" So I guess I was still unsure if it was a different ruleset or not. It seemed compatible. But I want to double check.
It can certainly be used as a separate rule set, since the Essentials line has a full, subtely different, rule set from the core books. WotC organized play even uses it as such, restricting D&D Encounter to "Essentials +" with core banned.
However, they are compatible, and it's up to the DM how much of each to use.
If I start my players at level 6 How much starting gear should they begin with. Should I use the Parcel system laid out for levels 1-6 in DMG1 or will that be TOO much.
You shouldn't use either the parcel system in the DMG, or the random system in the DM kit. Rather, there are rules in the PH1 for creating characters above first level. In summary, the characters get three magic items - one of the character's level, one each 1 above and below that level - plus gold to buy additional gear equal to the value of a level-1 item. For Essentials, add the proviso that only one of the three items picked can be 'rare' and that any items bought with gold must be 'common.'
So, for level 6, a 7th, 6th, & 5th level item, plus 1000gp.
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? Join the Old Guard of 4e"You want The Tooth? You can't handle The Tooth!" - Dahlver-Nar. "If magic is unrestrained in the campaign, D&D quickly degenerates into a weird wizard show where players get bored quickly" - E. Gary Gygax
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2 years ago ::
Nov 20, 2011 - 4:32PM
#14
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Can "Madness at Gardmore Abbey" run balanced using the original 4 edition rules or should I use 4e "essentials"?
This is like asking "is it balanced with PHB3 classes, or should I insist people only use PHB2 classes?"
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2 years ago ::
Nov 20, 2011 - 8:07PM
#15
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Date Joined:
Aug 21, 2003
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You shouldn't use either the parcel system in the DMG, or the random system in the DM kit. Rather, there are rules in the PH1 for creating characters above first level. In summary, the characters get three magic items - one of the character's level, one each 1 above and below that level - plus gold to buy additional gear equal to the value of a level-1 item. For Essentials, add the proviso that only one of the three items picked can be 'rare' and that any items bought with gold must be 'common.'
So, for level 6, a 7th, 6th, & 5th level item, plus 1000gp.
I think the other 2 picked can both be Uncommons, though, right?
So, a lvl 7, a lvl 6, and a lvl5, which can be 1 Rare and 2 Uncommons
and 1,000 gp, which can only purchase Common items. All mundane gear is free.
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2 years ago ::
Nov 21, 2011 - 12:34PM
#16
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2001
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This is like asking "is it balanced with PHB3 classes, or should I insist people only use PHB2 classes?"
PH3 classes are a little whacked. Sticking with PH1 and PH2 classes would be better. An exception might be made for the Monk.
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? Join the Old Guard of 4e"You want The Tooth? You can't handle The Tooth!" - Dahlver-Nar. "If magic is unrestrained in the campaign, D&D quickly degenerates into a weird wizard show where players get bored quickly" - E. Gary Gygax
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2 years ago ::
Nov 21, 2011 - 12:36PM
#17
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2001
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You shouldn't use either the parcel system in the DMG, or the random system in the DM kit. Rather, there are rules in the PH1 for creating characters above first level. In summary, the characters get three magic items - one of the character's level, one each 1 above and below that level - plus gold to buy additional gear equal to the value of a level-1 item. For Essentials, add the proviso that only one of the three items picked can be 'rare' and that any items bought with gold must be 'common.'
So, for level 6, a 7th, 6th, & 5th level item, plus 1000gp.
I think the other 2 picked can both be Uncommons, though, right?
Right.
So, a lvl 7, a lvl 6, and a lvl5, which can be 1 Rare and 2 Uncommons
and 1,000 gp, which can only purchase Common items. All mundane gear is free.
I thought mundane gear being free was a 3e thing? Anyway, it's darn close to free when your budget is 1000gp.
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? Join the Old Guard of 4e"You want The Tooth? You can't handle The Tooth!" - Dahlver-Nar. "If magic is unrestrained in the campaign, D&D quickly degenerates into a weird wizard show where players get bored quickly" - E. Gary Gygax
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2 years ago ::
Nov 21, 2011 - 12:38PM
#18
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This is like asking "is it balanced with PHB3 classes, or should I insist people only use PHB2 classes?"
PH3 classes are a little whacked. Sticking with PH1 and PH2 classes would be better. An exception might be made for the Monk.
PH3 ones are different, not unbalanced. But switch the question to "is it balanced with Arcane Power, or should I insist people only use Martial Power 2?" for a diffeerent example of why "is it balanced with essentials or just normal D&D" is a stupid question.
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2 years ago ::
Nov 21, 2011 - 12:45PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2001
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If nothing else, power creep is a fact of gaming life, and a recent module might be well-balanced for the full ruleset, but tough for characters built using only older stuff.
But there are other factors unique to the current status of the game, in addition to that. Essentials made several changes that affect encounter balance, which might make a module written for Essentials+ less than perfect for a core party. The rules on magic item dailies changed, making item dailies more accessible, especially early in the day, at heroic levels. Rituals virtualy disapeared (a few existing as class features). And, classes were introduced with varying daily resources, changing the dynamics of encounter balance, as well.
So, it's not an entirely unreasonable thing to think about.
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? Join the Old Guard of 4e"You want The Tooth? You can't handle The Tooth!" - Dahlver-Nar. "If magic is unrestrained in the campaign, D&D quickly degenerates into a weird wizard show where players get bored quickly" - E. Gary Gygax
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2 years ago ::
Nov 22, 2011 - 7:32AM
#20
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This is like asking "is it balanced with PHB3 classes, or should I insist people only use PHB2 classes?"
PH3 classes are a little whacked. Sticking with PH1 and PH2 classes would be better. An exception might be made for the Monk.
PH3 ones are different, not unbalanced. But switch the question to "is it balanced with Arcane Power, or should I insist people only use Martial Power 2?" for a diffeerent example of why "is it balanced with essentials or just normal D&D" is a stupid question.
PHB2 was more balanced then PHB1/PHB3 out of the box. Though errata probably makes PHB2 the worst (swarm druids).
That said, the essentials stuff is probably the most balanced. But part of that is simply because they don't have as many options too balance.
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my builds
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F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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