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Switch to Forum Live View My own alternatives to casting system
2 years ago  ::  Nov 11, 2011 - 6:24AM #1
QuicksilverWolf
Date Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Posts: 37
I really don't like the casting system - not the spell level or casting time or anything like that, just the fact that for, say, a first level wizard you can cast 2 first level spells and you're spent. Further, it took you eight hours to properly prepare those two spells. The party's wizard may as well head back to the inn and get drunk for all the good they'll be after the fact. If they charged by the hour for their services, they wouldn't earn much, as be basically useless after. That's why I always said you get your actual ability score modifier, not just one extra spell for having a mod between +1 and +4. I mean sure, I get that hedge wizards are nothing to write ballards about (written by that inn's local entertainment, who sings a jaunty jig about how the mighty, awe-inspiring, terrifyingly powerful wizard cast two magic missiles and then headed back home because clearly his work here was done).

(Speaking of wizards and bards, don't the pair seem more suited to npc's than adventurers?)

Anyway, I was unable to sleep last night and had this kind of thing stuck on my mind (for a few months now). I've written up ideas for cool-down (ala world of warcraft, dragon age), recharge (my own idea), and mana. Let me know what you think.



General: should these apply to per-day class and race abilities? (ie: Turn Undead, Smite Evil, Bard Song, Barbarian Rage&hellip


 


 

Cool-down


 


This system allows wizards, clerics, druids and the like to cast spells more often than their current, extremely limited, amount per day. Further, it allows them to do so spontaneously (in the cleric and druid’s case all spells), like sorcerers. It evens the playing field for Vancian (prepare-fire-forget) casters who have to prepare spells ahead of time, need prior notice of the obstacles ahead, and 8 hours rest to prepare for casting a single spell, once – if they don’t have the spell at hand, they have to find somewhere safe to prepare, distraction-free and danger-free, and still their casting options are severely limited at low levels.


Having a spell cool-down system allows continuous casting, although wizards and the like do still have to wait while the spell they just cast recharges.


With a cool-down, casters can cast a spell, wait a bit then cast it again. They can choose to cast a different spell, if they have spells per day left. You still use up spells per day. What this allows is flexibility in spell choice, not in actual casting limits.


The cool-down amount is very simple: basically, the time it takes to actually cast the spell – free, single or full-round (or more); plus a number of rounds equal to the spell level. So, if wizard casts Magic Missile, they have to wait one round to cast it again. A spell like Antipathy, however, which takes an hour to cast, requires the wizard to wait 1 hour + 8 rounds for an 8th-level spell. Arcane Eye which takes ten minutes requires a ten minute wait + another 4 rounds as it is a 4th-level spell.


In all other respects, spell-casting is as written: spells per day remain the same, as do spells known and bonuses to Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma affecting potency and number of spells, etc. All components must be observed, except with metamagic feats. Material components must still be in the caster’s possession, and are used up in the casting. Bards and Sorcerers follow this rule as well, but otherwise retain all their class-specific benefits such as Bard Song, weapon and armour proficiencies, skill allocation, etc.


Spell Mastery: the feat Spell Mastery is altered; instead of some spells being spontaneous whereas the rest are prepared, the wizard can now choose a specific spell, such as Fireball, and be able to cast it a number of times per day equal to their Intelligence modifier, without affecting their spells per day quota. That one spell is independent of their repertoire, although they have to rest to regain use of that particular spell.


Cool-down doesn’t apply just to spells, it also applies to class features. Daily abilities count as spells under this system; the character must wait a period equal to the action it took to activate the ability, plus half of the relevant class level, rounded down. For example, a 5th level paladin can use Smite Evil twice per day, waiting two rounds and being able to use the ability as per usual.


Action Points, if used, can either allow an additional use of a class ability or spell or to negate the wait time, but not both, unless the character can use two action points per round.


  • Spells-per-day remains unaffected, as does Spells Known where applicable – you’re still spent if you use up all your spells
  • No prep or slots needed; all casters are spontaneous
  • Cool-down time (in rounds) = casting time + spell level (- ½ Con Mod?)
  • Intelligence still affects aspects like spells known, DCs, learning ability, etc
  • Bards, Sorcerers etc?

 


Recharge


If cool-down seems too drastic, perhaps recharge is more appropriate for some campaigns.


With meditation, prayer, study, practice or the like, characters can prepare for an hour to regain some casting ability or use of class abilities.


A wizard can study a few key spells in their book. A cleric can pray for particular spells in the field. A paladin can regain their Smite Evil attempts.


This one hour does not constitute proper rest, and does not restore hit points, nor does it remove ability damage, as per a full 8 hours sleep. However, it does allow a character to regain some of their special powers.


In short, one hour’s focus in this manner restores 1d6+1 spell slots (any level, character’s choice), or 1d4+1 per-day abilities such as Smite Evil or Wild Shape, etc.

  • Studying, praying, practicing etc for one hour restores your spellcasting, but not your health, ability damage, etc.
  • Possibly only a portion, ie: your relevant ability (Int for Wizards)

 


Mana Points


MP cost = spell level x 4


Max MP = class level x ability modifier x 4


 


Spell Level


MP cost


1


4


2


8


3


12


4


16


5


20


6


24


7


28


8


32


9


36


 


 


Maximum MP


Class Level


Relevant Ability Modifier


1


2


3


4


5


6


7


8


9


10


1


4


8


12


16


20


24


28


32


36


40


2


8


16


24


32


40


48


56


64


72


80


3


12


24


36


48


60


72


84


96


108


120


4


16


32


48


64


80


96


112


128


144


160


5


20


40


60


80


100


120


140


160


180


200


6


24


48


72


96


120


144


168


192


216


240


7


28


56


84


112


140


168


196


224


252


280


8


32


64


96


128


160


192


224


256


288


320


9


36


72


108


144


180


216


252


288


324


360


10


40


80


120


160


200


240


280


320


360


400


11


44


88


132


176


220


264


308


352


396


440


12


48


96


144


192


240


288


336


384


432


480


13


52


104


156


208


260


312


364


416


468


520


14


56


112


168


224


280


336


392


448


504


560


15


60


120


180


240


300


360


420


480


540


600


16


64


128


192


256


320


384


448


512


576


640


17


68


136


204


272


340


408


476


544


612


680


18


72


144


216


288


360


432


504


576


648


720


19


76


152


228


304


380


456


532


608


684


760


20


80


160


240


320


400


480


560


640


720


800


21


84


168


252


336


420


504


588


672


756


840


22


88


176


264


352


440


528


616


704


792


880


23


92


184


276


368


460


552


644


736


828


920


24


96


192


288


384


480


576


672


768


864


960


25


100


200


300


400


500


600


700


800


900


1000


26


104


208


312


416


520


624


728


832


936


1040


27


108


216


324


432


540


648


756


864


972


1080


28


112


224


336


448


560


672


784


896


1008


1120


29


116


232


348


464


580


696


812


928


1044


1160


30


120


240


360


480


600


720


840


960


1080


1200


 


Converting to a mana system has it’s own issues: if mana is involved, how does one replenish it? Rest, for one. Otherwise, one needs spells, which should probably be limited to divine in nature. Then there’s potions – how does one get around using MP to regain MP? EXP sacrifice? I think I saw on this forum somwhere, an idea for mana potions and the crafting thereof...


 

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1 year ago  ::  Mar 30, 2012 - 2:18AM #2
QuicksilverWolf
Date Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Posts: 37

Potions


Potion of Mana Restoration, Minor


Supply cost: 12.5 gp, Base cost 25 gp


Potion of Mana Restoration


Supply cost: 75 gp, Base cost 150 gp


Potion of Mana Restoration, Major


Supply cost: 187.5 gp, Base cost 375 gp


 


Spells


Restore Mana, Minor (Druid 1, Clr 1, Pal 1, Rgr 1) Cost: 50 exp


Divine energy flows through you, allowing you to restore mana to an ally touched, equal to 1d8 + level, up to 5


Restore Mana (Drd 2, Clr 2) Cost: 100 exp


Divine energy flows through you, allowing you to restore mana to an ally touched, equal to 2d8 + level, up to 10


Restore Mana, Major (Drd 3, Clr 3) Cost: 150 exp


Divine energy flows through you, allowing you to restore mana to an ally touched, equal to 3d8 + level, up to 15


 


The opposite is true for evil characters: a touch attack saps enemy mana to the same degree, the spell becoming Inflict Mana Damage.


Undead have their mana restored by Inflict Mana Damage, if they have mana to begin with. They have it drained by Restore Mana spells.


 


Drain Mana (Wiz/Sor 6, Clr 5, Drd 5)


Some devious spellcasters are able to drain mana from a foe, and use the captured energy to bolster their own reserves.


Drain Mana is a ranged touch attack that reduces the foe’s mana reserve by 4d6 + caster level, and increases the caster’s mana reserve by half (rounded down, minimum 1). 

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1 year ago  ::  Mar 30, 2012 - 11:28AM #3
StevenO
Date Joined: Apr 9, 2004
Posts: 14,329

I really don't like the casting system - not the spell level or casting time or anything like that, just the fact that for, say, a first level wizard you can cast 2 first level spells and you're spent. Further, it took you eight hours to properly prepare those two spells. The party's wizard may as well head back to the inn and get drunk for all the good they'll be after the fact. If they charged by the hour for their services, they wouldn't earn much, as be basically useless after. That's why I always said you get your actual ability score modifier, not just one extra spell for having a mod between +1 and +4. I mean sure, I get that hedge wizards are nothing to write ballards about (written by that inn's local entertainment, who sings a jaunty jig about how the mighty, awe-inspiring, terrifyingly powerful wizard cast two magic missiles and then headed back home because clearly his work here was done).
(Speaking of wizards and bards, don't the pair seem more suited to npc's than adventurers?)
Anyway, I was unable to sleep last night and had this kind of thing stuck on my mind (for a few months now). I've written up ideas for cool-down (ala world of warcraft, dragon age), recharge (my own idea), and mana. Let me know what you think.


Disclaimers:  I haven't read through your concepts for a few reasons.  First is I don't believe they are anything new that hasn't been written at least once in the past ten years.  Secondly, there's so much there and the formatting isn't all that great (too much space) so it wouldn't make an easy or enjoyable read.  The last that I have some other thoughts based on your premise.

The vatican spellcasting system had been part of DnDd from the begining up until 4e.  There have been various changes suggested over the year but almost all of them will just serve to power up what are already DnD's "power" characters.  I believe 4e did away with the "old style" spellcasting but basically makes everyone a 'spellcaster' even if what they do isn't called spellcasting.

I'd also say that 3.5 may already have some "solutions" to your issues.  I'm not all that familiar with it but Psionics is really just a different take on magic that uses alternative rules.  The later 3.5 books also include something called 'Reserve Feats' which give a spellcaster an ability that is usable every round with that abilities power based on a qualifying uncast spell.  I could also point out that spellcasters may not be able to physically cast spells every round for an hour but they can also make use of many relatively low cost magic items (scrolls and wands) that immitate spells they could otherwise cast.

Now my finishing thoughts are that you need to re-evaluate a spellcaster's performance.  You're looking at low levels and I'll admit that a Wizard throwing out two MM spells and then being done for they day is weak.  The problem there is that you are looking at very poor spell usage.  During that encounter he could have instead cast a single Sleep spell and just won the entire encounter for everyone and still had a spell left for a second encounter.  That lowly Wizard 1 may also get so few spell that he's only good for an encounter but what about the Fighter or Barbarian who takes one good hit and is now on the verge of death?  You see their encounter duration isn't so great either when they start expending resource such as hit points.  It may also seem surprising but in practice spellcasters rarely run out of spells unless they really throw out spells just to burn through them because spellcasters can just end encounters and it is a common practice to rest and restore that ability when they're running low.

Maybe you've heard about the "one hour adventuring day" which is basically a group that gets rested up, goes out, has their spellcasters blow through their daily spells, and then goes back and rests until the casters are recharged again.  I blame that situation on DMs who cater to that style of play and on players who always want to "go nova" every encounter.  Although it may mean more work for the DM and more restraint from the PCs I think it is possible to get in a full day of adventuring provided the DM doesn't constantly throw challenging (EL=eAPL) or harder encounters at the players; this should give the "weaker but consistant" characters more time to shine while a spellcaster learn to hold off unless needed.  Most systems that try altering the spellcasting system want to make adventuring all day easier but they rarely want to reduce the spellcaster's power during any single encounter; the net effect is that spellcasters are always stronger and you take away the one possible advantage that non-casters had.

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 01, 2012 - 10:37AM #4
MrCustomer
Date Joined: Aug 3, 2007
Posts: 2,394
There are several ways that already exist in the game for wizards to deal with the limits to the spells they have.


At level 1 a wizard gets Scribe Scroll. This allows a low level wizard to scribe extra spells, so that they aren't limited to a set number of spells they are able to scribe. They can also use Scrolls that are purchased and found in treasure. Additionally Wizards can use Wands (either made themselves, or found or purchased) as well as making magic items specific to their needs, inlcuding spell storing items.

Judicious use of these items more then equips a wizard to deal with their limitations.  


A low level caster also has 0th level spells, spells like flare and daze can work spectacularly in the low levels, so there is more then just 2 spells. As well it only takes just one good spell to basically win an encounter, Sleep, or Color Spray can easily decide the entire encounter with a single spell. That means that even without scrolls, the wizard has spells for 3 encounters. Toss in a few scrolls and the wizard should have very little problems.

They also have a crossbow, magic isn't the only option.   

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