OP here, to clarify: the situation in my post is hypothetical. In an actual situation where my DM had reason to prohibit female satyrs and I really wanted to play one, I think I'd either find a new group or defer to my DM's version of his campaign world, rather than hang out in his world and cause trouble. Actually doing that, while theoretically justified, would feel a little childish in most cases, especially if DM friction negatively affected the game for everyone else.
The "transgendered character might make people uncomfortable" argument is actually so far from my experiences with gaming groups that it didn't really enter my mind. I guess I should remember that not all D&D players are teenagers from hippie towns in Massachusetts or students at small Quaker liberal arts colleges. Although in general... transphobia is really nothing beyond people being squicky when their gender role expectations are violated. There's really no more moral depth to it than "eww, I associate that behavior with different social cues, aaaaargh my established folkways!" So, I'm not sure that would really go on my list of "controversial political issues to keep off the gaming table." But again, if it really was a problem for some reason, I'd rather be polite and have the game actually be fun for everybody.
It also turns out that once I actually got my copy of HotFW, my vague desire to build a female satyr went away. There's too much cool stuff in that book to experiment with without annoying anyone, and all the races presented are oddball enough as character starting points that I don't feel the need to stuff my concept with added quirkiness. If my hypothetical DM gave a turd, Cyrus the Satyr Skald could kick just as much ass and tell just as many vaguely raunchy stories as Sara.
Or it might make people uncomfortable at the table, and that should be respected.
Why? If my playing a transgender character makes you feel uncomfortable, or if my otherwise playing a character of a sex or gender or sexuality other than my own or your own makes you feel uncomfortable, then that sounds like a personal problem that you need to deal with. I feel absolutely no need to respect other people's transphobia, homophobia, sexism, or anything else of that nature.
I'm pretty open-minded, I have nothing against the LGBT community... That said, personally, I have been uncomfortable with cross-gendered roleplaying.
... So, you have nothing against LGBTQ but don't feel comfortable with it? Does not compute.
I've been in groups with the fat middle-aged guy who always played hot elf females and tried to use his character's sexuality often in roleplaying encounters. It did make me uncomfortable...
If you had an immature jerk player that played a dwarf fighter and was always bringing up really inappropriate things during play that makes you and others in the group feel uncomfortable, would you respond to that by disallowing dwarves or fighters in your game? No, that would be absurd.
...if the DM or any of the payers are uncomfortable with it, the DM has a responsibility to the group, and that decision should be respected.
This is an issue bigger than D&D now. If you're really pro-LGBTQ rights, then it's your responsibility as an ally not to respect the discomfort.
Even the LBGT D&D players I know would respect that and play a character of their own gender.
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That said, personally, I have been uncomfortable with cross-gendered roleplaying. I've been in groups with the fat middle-aged guy who always played hot elf females and tried to use his character's sexuality often in roleplaying encounters.
That these "fat middle-aged guys" chose to project tired, sexist gender/sexual sterotypes in deliberatly insulting and disruptive ways says more about the maturity of those players than the concept of transgendered characters in general.
There are plenty of ways to play a transgendered character non-disruptively, without uncomfortable sexual tension entering the game at all; As many ways, I would say, as there are to play a non-transgendered character without uncomfortable sexual tension entering the game at all. The mere fact that a character in your game is transgendered does not automatically mean that things have to, or will, get "weird", or even that sexual orientation has to become a theme of the campaign. Likewise, there are plenty of ways to explore those concepts maturely in-game, just as there are mature ways of exploring other "hot-button" topics, such as politics, slavery, and religion.
I'm just saying, in a social game like dnd it'd kinda help to see things from other people's views. Yes, there is no logical reason for them to feel uncomfortable about it, and yes if they could get over that it'd be great. But still, when people constantly talk about how "gender (sorry if im using one of the wrong words, don't really know their differences yet) doesn't matter" or "my character would be the same as a male or female" then why make such a big deal about it by disturbing other players? I doubt it would disturb the person being a transgendered satyr to be just a male satyr. By making that small sacrifice on your part, it can help make everybody have a good time. If you are that attached to playing a female satyr, then maybe you could also try and solve some issues.
...That said, I am kinda being the devil's advocate here since I personally think female satyrs should be allowed. But other players doing something that could easily be avoided that makes the others uncomfortable kinda annoys me is all. (and, like I said, which was mostly ignored, if this isn't an issue then go ahead and be transgendered)
Heya everyone, here are my homebrew threads: (yes there is only one right now, but there are more to come!) And Let There Be Fish-Men: KUO-TOA
So I've been skimming through these posts and for the life of me can't seem to understand what everyone's issue is. It comes down to a few factors in my mind.
1. The race description says they are all male ----1A. In all editions of DnD there has been a statement made somewhere in print that ALL rules are subject to DM and player descretion, to use or change as they wish. So, simply choose not to use that bit of written word.
2. It is the player's choice to play a character however he/she wishes, and to build the character however it is desired, but within the framework set down by the DM. ----2A. If the DM says "no", that's his or her call. Either suck it up and make something else or find someone who will let you play as you wish.
3. As mentioned, it's the DM's world in the end, so it's his/her call.
4. It's a game. Please don't try to use it as a platform for your social statements and agendas.
Also, it's a group decision. The DM only has god powers if the group gives the DM god powers. Otherwise, it's the group's world, and the group's game.
And it just should not have been part of the stat block.
oh, and...this thread is now a satyress art thread.
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
I agree completely with Rhovianion, although with a small addition in that a good dm will still try and work with the players rather than against when at all possible.
Also, female satyr art thread? I'm down with that.
Heya everyone, here are my homebrew threads: (yes there is only one right now, but there are more to come!) And Let There Be Fish-Men: KUO-TOA
But was it simply because they played their opposite gender, or was it the manner in which they played?
That's a fair point, and I'm honest enough with myself to admit it may be the case. Unfortunately, that being my experience with opposite-gender roleplaying, it is now the association I make when it comes to that topic.
Or it might make people uncomfortable at the table, and that should be respected.
Why? If my playing a transgender character makes you feel uncomfortable, or if my otherwise playing a character of a sex or gender or sexuality other than my own or your own makes you feel uncomfortable, then that sounds like a personal problem that you need to deal with. I feel absolutely no need to respect other people's transphobia, homophobia, sexism, or anything else of that nature.
But didn't you say earlier that group consensus needs to be respected? I know from talking with you over the years C_C where you personally stand on this matter, but I would think that if your group politely asked you to stick with at least a character of the same gender as yourself that you would respect it. No reason to assume that this request comes from someone going "Ewwww....creepy!". But rather, if the other players said "Hey, look. We all like you for who you are, and we're cool, but playing an opposite gender character is sort of uncomfortable for some of us, and/or is disruptive to our suspension of disbelief for roleplaying" (or some other similar argument, but still politely and respectfully posed), I would think that should have some weight in your decision.
I'm pretty open-minded, I have nothing against the LGBT community... That said, personally, I have been uncomfortable with cross-gendered roleplaying.
... So, you have nothing against LGBTQ but don't feel comfortable with it? Does not compute.
Why not? After all, some of my best friends earlier in life were gay or lesbian, but I've also been around one particular individual who had a "everyone is gay, no disputing it" attitude, and would not let up harassing me (and I'm not exaggerating, it was no-s**t sexual harassment), insisting I was gay. That made me very uncomfortable. But I would assume it is no different from a staright woman being sexually harassed by straight men. I consider that type of person the exception and not the rule, the only other time I have been hit on by a guy, I told him "I'm flattered, but I'm straight, sorry", and he was like "cool" and left me alone.
Just because I have no negative bias against (and have many friends in) the LBGT community, doesn't mean I'm comfortable with everything LBGT. Maybe it is old prejudices ingrained in me from a conservative upbringing that I have been unable to shake, but that doesn't make me a homophobe or a bad person. I've had bad experiences with cross-gender roleplaying, and as a DM , I think there are some gender-identity issues that make it difficult to roleplay well. That's a personal opinion, and in no way do I think it an unshakeable fact . I'd be more comfortable with someone playing a homosexual character of their own gender (especially if the player in question is homosexual), then cross-gender roleplaying.
I've been in groups with the fat middle-aged guy who always played hot elf females and tried to use his character's sexuality often in roleplaying encounters. It did make me uncomfortable...
If you had an immature jerk player that played a dwarf fighter and was always bringing up really inappropriate things during play that makes you and others in the group feel uncomfortable, would you respond to that by disallowing dwarves or fighters in your game? No, that would be absurd.
Yes, it would be absurd, but that's not really a good example.
...if the DM or any of the payers are uncomfortable with it, the DM has a responsibility to the group, and that decision should be respected.
This is an issue bigger than D&D now. If you're really pro-LGBTQ rights, then it's your responsibility as an ally not to respect the discomfort.
No, it's my responsibility as a DM to be a fair and objective arbiter and ensure that all the players at the table are having fun. My responsibility is to the game and the group of players as a whole, and the needs and desires of the many outweigh those of any individual.
Even the LBGT D&D players I know would respect that and play a character of their own gender.
Well now you know one that wouldn't.
That's unfortunate, but I respect your opinions, and your adherence to your values and ideals. If you were in my group and this issue was so critical to you as to hang your continued presence at the table on this, I would be sad to lose you as a player if it caused you to leave. I'd prefer to find a middle ground that made everyone at the table happy, and keep all my players.
As gamers, we face a lot of negative stigma and ridicule from the larger population. This applies at any age group, even well after high school, when these unfortunate stereotypes persist. LBGT community members likewise face negative social issues in their everyday life. Groups shunned by mainstream society should stick together, and people who fall into both categories should not be made to feel uncomfortable in either, but rather bridge the gap betweeen the two and welcomed by both. Gamers are hard to come by in my area (military base in WA), and I would not want to lose any players I found. If the issue of cross-gendered roleplaying was SO important to a LBGT player at my table, I would gather the group together as a whole to try and discuss this and find a solution that appeases everybody.
4. It's a game. Please don't try to use it as a platform for your social statements and agendas."
A common tactic to block 'disruptive'/'taboo' subjects from enterering debate.
Saying 'it's a game, it should ne be deep' is sad. Let's say.
RPGs can be actually more,a way to explorate subjects like.. genders and sexualities issues, yes. Religions, etnical and racial discriminations, etc... as well. RPGs can be tools as well.
I don't see the problem. Legendary satyrs were all male, so I really fail to see why people are whining about no female satyrs. Also, why aren't people crying about no male hamadryads?
