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So, we got the desktop apps killed without warning because they had to move to the bold new online world to take advantage of better DRM, er, be more useful to players. Silverlight was chosen for... uhm... not sure, really, as I'm trying to find a way to imagine what was running through the head of the decision-maker who decided, "Hey, you know, that iOS, the most dominant tablet OS on the market and thus the platform most people would likely use if they were going to connect to DDI during gameplay? Yeah, let's not support that.". And now, of course, Silverlight is being abandoned by Microsoft, which means that while it's good for the next few years, eventually, technologies and protocols will emerge that it will not be updated to support. (And, if the article is to be believed, Silverlight 5 might not even work on MacOS, which means even the "Hey! Now Mac users can use DDI, and all it took was seriously pissing off our entire existing installed user base!" argument that was put forth becomes rather moot.)

Why were the desktop apps killed again? Why are we still waiting to get the same functionality in the new tools we had years ago in the old ones? (I just found out the online Monster Builder only allows saving 50 custom monsters.... the FRAK?)

Nov 9, 2011 -- 2:53PM, DrNick wrote:

AFAIK, Microsoft has indicated they will not stop supporting silverlight.

No, they haven't. Microsoft will give a one year notice and that hasn't happened yet. However there are news that they would be ceasing development pretty soon (which is different from support) and the last version won't have Mac/Linux version, much less a Windows Mobile, Android, or iOS version.

This is not great news for users (us) because when the tool first moved online, we were told one of the pros is cross platform compatibility when in fact we loss offline capability and responsiveness without gaining any compatibility.  And I think it's pretty safe to assume we would never get it now.

IMO giving us hope of cross-platform compatibility and promoting it as the advantage was the wrong step, not choosing .Net.  I don't see any true cross-platform language other then HTML5, even at that time and even more so now.  It's similiar to me for other pros, for instance there is no good reason why offline characters can't be sync-ed with cloud storage.

That's my view, so yeah I re-evaluated and unsubscribed and left 4e. Glad to hear that DDI still make good value for some players/DMs.  Despite the news, I believe that its value is hard to go further down, so I trust that it'll remain valuable.  Until 5e comes out.

a)You could accomplish most of the EULA goals the same way many games do -- require a password and a log-on to run the program, but keep the program local. Sure, this can be hacked, but people have also found ways to hack the Silverlight tools. Combined with a steady flow of content such that people would not want to wait six months or more to get it, and the problem would be mostly resolved. I agree it was a business decision, but it was a short-sighted one that I suspect will not acheive its goals.[1]

b)The "years ago" refers to the original tool releases. Functionality that was present when the tools were first released, in some cases, is still not present in the online tools. Hence, the functionality we had "years ago" is still not there. I hope this clarifies things.

Back on topic -- if Silverlight is getting back-burnered by Microsoft, this seriously undermines the hope that DDI would become truly cross-platform. The ability to use WOTC tools on iOS could be a tremendous revenue source, and change the way games are played... just wandering the floor at GenCon shows how many gamers are symbiotically linked to their iPads. Tethering their horse to a desktop/laptop platform, when tablets are far more useful in face-to-face tabletop games, was a bad move. The loss of potential future support might be a good excuse to justify the funding needed to redevelop the tools for iOS. (Does Silverlight work on Android?)

[1]I should also note I can't imagine that no one at Hasbro/WOTC, when discussing the original DDI setup, didn't realize the high probability of "drive by subscriptions" and factor that into their business model and revenue projections[2]. It's a very obvious issue with any kind of "subscription gets you all current and past content" model. (This is why so many sites use autobilling, in the hopes that the guy who subbed, logged on, and DL'ed all the content will forget to unsub until they've been billed a few times.) Assuming that WOTC was caught flat-footed by this unexpected criminal behavior from their loyal customers is like saying they "never dreamed" that anyone would use the OGL to reprint the SRD commercially... when this possibility is explicitly mentioned, and permitted, in the official WOTC FAQ released in 2000. (It's amazing how many people don't know this and keep talking about how Paizo "stole" the SRD or how the OGL "wasn't supposed to let people do that" or the like.)

[2]Granted, it's also possible they assumed that things like Virtual Table, etc, would be ready on time and would provide enough of a month-to-month lure that people would stay subbed for that. They may have also been counting on synergy with Gleemax and special "subscriber only" features people wouldn't live without, once Gleemax became "Facebook for gamers". When these failed to materialize, it may well be that the original model became unsustainable and the new model had to be implemented without sufficient time to do it properly. Of course, no one will ever confirm or deny this officially.

Nov 10, 2011 -- 7:08AM, kenjoon wrote:

Nov 9, 2011 -- 12:59PM, Lizard_SF wrote:

Why were the desktop apps killed again? Why are we still waiting to get the same functionality in the new tools we had years ago in the old ones? (I just found out the online Monster Builder only allows saving 50 custom monsters.... the FRAK?)

IMO - We got the online apps for business reasons.  First and foremost is to make the EULA enforceable.  Not paying anymore?  No more access.  Another reason was that the offline builders allowed you to subscribe once every 6 months for updates, killing their revenue stream.

I could be wrong of course, but I don't think so.  The bottom line is a pretty big motivator when it comes to business decisions.  With this reasoning in mind I don't think we'll ever get any new desktop apps, and (as noted by my sig) I don't think we'll get the old ones back either.

I'm sure Silverlight was chosen for business reasons (subscription revenue and anti-piracy) and I don't see anything wrong with that, but imo it was probably also the best decision as far as platforms go.  Java and Flash have their own issues and HTML5 is not ready for primetime yet.  Of those four, only Silverlight is fully supported AND rich enough in features for their needs WITHOUT the security and speed issues that the other platforms have.  If I had to make the choice HTML5 would not even have been an option at this point.  Silverlight would have been my first choice with Java being a close second and flash being a distant third.

When HTML5 comes into its own in the not too distant future, I would consider changing over.  But that may be a while and the CB needed to be developed now.

On the other hand, look at the VT, which uses Java.  Why Java?  Well, business reasons, I'm sure.  Gametable had already created the groundwork and WoTC could simply buy something that works quite well without investing tons of their own development time.  In that case, smart move.