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2 years ago ::
Nov 24, 2011 - 4:30PM
#31
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Warlocks are strikers, and I already mentioned my distaste for that roll when not hybrid with a leader or conroller class. Likewise, the necromancy wizard is horridly underpowered and I have heard people compair it to the 3.5e monk in some cases and that turns me off to it since I don't like being underpowered compaired to everybody else. Also, to the person who said evil games and PCs don't exsist, your dead wrong. While the writers try to beat it into our skulls that PCs are not evil and even desgine the game with non-evil PCs in mind, 4e has no offical mechanical aligenment system. Yes, an "aligenment" system exsists, but unlike 3.5e it has no mechanical impact on the game. I could write Pasta as my aligenment and it would have no effect on the game mechanically, it only comes into play during RP and just because a character is evil dose not mean they would refuse to openly consort or even work with non-evil people for their own gain.
Most 4e games I run and play in tend to often have at least 1-2, if not more characters who you can't really class as good. 4e is morally ambigious and thus the kind of evil I am talking about is not the kind you probally assume when the term is thrown around. I'm not talking a cackeling, card carrying saturday morning cartoon style evil, here. More like a sneaky, manipulative evil that consorts with/uses team good for their own plans. The kind of guy who will still give to charity, still save the princess and still help to take down the BBEG, but in the end is only doing it for selfish, self-serving, morally bankrupt reasons, usually with the aqusition of personal power(both political and magical) as their ultimate goal. Basicly, it's like the cliche theif who adventurers only for the cash, except replace theif with a magic-using class and cash with power. Evil can work with good and vice versa so long as evil is played more as selfish and power-hungry but willing to do good things as well as bad to fowrard their own ends as appose to the saturday morning villain charactaure that gose out of their way to be evil and backstab party members most people assume when the evil aligenment is thrown around. An adventuerer can still have evil motives and and be ruthless, and still fight alongside team good like any other party member; their evilness only becomes an issue when it causes them to assult/betray a party member or be evil stuiped. If you avoid evil stuiped and can justify why your selfish jerk decided to decline the BBEGs' offer to join him and not take advantage of oppertunites to betray the party then evil can work with good and vise-versa.
As for nethermancer, heard about it, never bothered checking it out. I heard it's summon sucks and that was kind of a turn off, though the other things I heard about it where pretty good. I may check it out, but part of the reasons I checked out the death cleric was because of two powers...servitude in death and shackles of the grave. Those two summons are WAY better then ANY undead-related stuff the wizard gets, and I'd like to use them on a "necromancer" character. I suppose I could get what I want by going as a wis-secondary arcanist and multiclassing cleric for those powers while picking up mostly nethermancy, necromancy and other "dark" themed powers(such as grasping shadows?)? Or would a strait nethermancer mage just be better for this, even though it is sevearly lacking in the summon department?
Anyway, I apologize if I seem complainy about this, but the lack of a good necromancy class has been something that has been bugging me since 4e has been released and heroes of shadow's terrible necromancy specality combind with the general distaine for good homebrew and 3rd party classes that I find in the 4e community have only served to make this worse. So I apologize if I come off as complaining too much about this, it's just that I've had to deal with a lot of disapointment over this issue(both at the necromancer wizards produced and the unwillingness of people to allow 3rd party and homrbrew that dose necromancy right.) so I've become quite bitter over it. However, I'll try to better control my words as this discussion continues as none of you really deserve to listen to it for stuff that you had no hand in and can't fix.
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2 years ago ::
Nov 24, 2011 - 8:38PM
#32
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Hot damn, that's a long post.
Warlocks: Basically controllers if you want them to be.
Evil Alignment: I agree with you here. But the person who pointed it out isn't really in the wrong, since so many people tend to do evil pcs badly and it's best to assume at first glance that someone mentioning it will do it wrong.
Necromancy Wizard: You're still a wizard, and wizards are ridiculously powerful. I am slightly talking out of my ass since I've never looked at the exact necromancy wizard, but really people are probably making it sound worse then it is. I mean you get to choose out of all the wizard powers still, just throw in a few necromancy or nethermancy ones. You have enough power slots to do it.
Nethermancer: Take the nethermancy powers, which aren't that bad, but just take the normal wizard summons if the nethermancy ones are so underpowered. Tack on "undead" in front of the summons name, and bam there you go. Actually now that I think of it a reskinned druid might work with all the summons it gets... but then again refluffing doesn't seem to be an option you care for.
In the end I think you're just making it harder than it has to be to have a Good Necromancer. It's pretty hard to be underpowered in 4e. Still, I kinda feel your pain since I'm jealous of pyromancers being a thing but no cryomancers (no not a wizard with the power of tears).
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1 year ago ::
Nov 25, 2011 - 12:48PM
#33
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The Necromancy specality mage is aweful from an OP standpoint....it's been comparied to the 3.5e Monk and the 4e binder....it lacks any hard control and has mostly blasty-powers, but yet has no class features that help it be better at blasting sans the ability to get around necrotic resistance at higher levels. So essentually, it's the wizard equlivilent of the binder. A "controller" that lacks any true hard control and just has blasts that is stuck with no way to actually be a good blasting.(Unlike the pyromancer, who CAN enhance his blasting and thus make up for his lack of hard control.) There are only a few good Necromancy powers; Nethermancy is strictely better and the only thing I've seen Necromancy used for in character Op is as a secondary school for pyromancers, since many of the good necromancy powers deal with fire damage as well as necrotic. Ironicaly, however, while nethermancy has all good powers except for it's summon which sucks, necromancy is the oppsite...it has a fairly decent summon, but horrid powers otherwise. If you could be a nethermancer and take the necromancy summon, my issues would be solved, but unfortinutly, if you specalize in nethermancy you can't do that are are forced to take the crappy nether summon or no shadow-based summons(Though you can still take standard summoning powers...but those are not "evil" enough for me sans the demons...everything else is too "nice.") at all.
So yeah, the necromancy mage is just that bad. Nethermancy is better, but, as I said, lacks a good summon...and having minions is my NUMBER ONE concern...
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1 year ago ::
Nov 25, 2011 - 12:56PM
#34
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1. Pretty sure the Mage can choose from the entire Wizard power list. Can't open the CB right now to check. 2. Reflavor it. Instead of Fire Warrior? It's Fire Demon. Describe it as being demony. And so forth.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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1 year ago ::
Nov 25, 2011 - 1:12PM
#35
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2005
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It's a D student.
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1 year ago ::
Nov 25, 2011 - 4:12PM
#36
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It's a D student.
And then all of a sudden there was a post that actually has to do with the thread title. I'm thinking more C- to B- range for 8 int though.
(also don't wanna post in the char op thread, but yeah Wizard|Warlock is a good bet)
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1 year ago ::
Nov 25, 2011 - 5:38PM
#37
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Date Joined:
Apr 16, 2009
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Warlocks are strikers, and I already mentioned my distaste for that roll when not hybrid with a leader or conroller class.
The easiest way to make a good striker/controller hybrid is to play a pure warlock.
"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
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1 year ago ::
Nov 26, 2011 - 1:40AM
#38
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2005
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It's a D student.
And then all of a sudden there was a post that actually has to do with the thread title. I'm thinking more C- to B- range for 8 int though.
(also don't wanna post in the char op thread, but yeah Wizard|Warlock is a good bet)
Ok... let me rephrase. It's a student with a GPA of 1.0-1.4 :P
In game terms, the average is 10. So, 8 would be slightly below average. Not debilitating by any means.
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1 year ago ::
Nov 26, 2011 - 2:42AM
#39
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Date Joined:
May 13, 2009
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I really don't get what Akatsuki_Emperor's problem is. There's plenty of room on any character to take decent stats to support your class and throw a 12 in whatever you need for flavor. That'll put you quite above average, which apparently is just what you need.
Epic Dungeon Master Want to give your players a kingdom of their own? I made a 4e rule system to make it happen! Your Kingdom awaits!Update 5th Sep 2011: Added a sample kingdom, as well as sample of play.
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1 year ago ::
Nov 26, 2011 - 10:04AM
#40
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Date Joined:
Apr 16, 2005
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You've probably known people with 8 intelligence. I know I have. And they still manage to tie their shoes and get to work in the morning.
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