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2 years ago ::
Nov 01, 2011 - 10:46PM
#1
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XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek
Date Joined:
May 31, 2003
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I've been looking over the classes and notice that all the roles except for the controller have a certain mechanic. The defender's have their marks, the healers have their healing and the striker's have their extra damage boost but the controller is something that lacks this. Now AoE's do have a place in the controller classes but it's in the other classes as well. The only thing that I can really see that would be a controller mechanic would be zones. But does this really define the controller role enough?
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2 years ago ::
Nov 01, 2011 - 11:32PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Oct 19, 2008
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I've been looking over the classes and notice that all the roles except for the controller have a certain mechanic. The defender's have their marks, the healers have their healing and the striker's have their extra damage boost but the controller is something that lacks this. Now AoE's do have a place in the controller classes but it's in the other classes as well. The only thing that I can really see that would be a controller mechanic would be zones. But does this really define the controller role enough?
Controllers are crowd control. Mass daze, sleep, stun, etc effects, generally are what characterize crowd control. So AoE plus debilitating effects or mass limiting actions are what should characterize most blast/burst controller attacks.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- )Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition.Salla: opinionated, but commonly right. fun quotes
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quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?
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2 years ago ::
Nov 01, 2011 - 11:39PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2002
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Controllers significantly alter the available decisions and math of the situation by positioning and creating limitations. Their minion-clearing duties are basically counter-control; minions are as much a terrain hazard as anything else, which controllers can clear away.
Wall powers are one of the purest forms of control - they can drastically alter the available actions of the allies and enemies, depending on what the wall does.
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2 years ago ::
Nov 01, 2011 - 11:42PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jun 27, 2004
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Buttons and either a directional pad, or some kind of joystick. Or motion control of some kind, on modern systems.
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Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us.
No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC).
(And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
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2 years ago ::
Nov 01, 2011 - 11:44PM
#5
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Date Joined:
May 13, 2009
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It's not much of a mechanical thing because controller is very hard to quantify mechanically. Which is why it's so hard to get right.
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2 years ago ::
Nov 01, 2011 - 11:54PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2002
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The thing with controllers is that most classes have a little controller in them - they don't have anything strictly unique to them. Of course, they also borrow a lot of stuff from other classes, but that tends to be more build-specific. Controllers tend to apply their tricks to a much larger portion of the map; a defender or a striker controls one or two monsters, a controller controls everything that it didn't just kill.
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2 years ago ::
Nov 02, 2011 - 12:31AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2001
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I've been looking over the classes and notice that all the roles except for the controller have a certain mechanic. The defender's have their marks, the healers have their healing and the striker's have their extra damage boost but the controller is something that lacks this. Now AoE's do have a place in the controller classes but it's in the other classes as well. The only thing that I can really see that would be a controller mechanic would be zones. But does this really define the controller role enough?
There are secondary roles and, really, every role has classes of other roles that do some of it's schtick. Paladins aren't Leaders, but they heal. Warlocks aren't controllers, but they create zones. Warlords aren't Defenders, but they have a few powers that can mark. And, every non-striker (even the Pacifist Cleric) can do damage.
The lack of class feature support for the controller role is telling, though. Every non-controller gets some class feature to support it's primary role. Marking, extra damage, healing - pretty clearly supports defender, striker, leader. The controller classes get nothing, all the support for their roles comes from their powers - which are often /very/ powerful, for that reason. Large AEs, zones, tremendously diverse keywords, a broad range of situational powers (attacks and utilities) - the controller role is almost more an excuse to grandfather in a vestige of the excessive verstitility and power enjoyed by casters in the past.
It would be nice to see controllers get class features to support the role. Resurecting 'meta magic' might have worked. For instance, a wizard might get powers more in keeping with other classes (or even draw from a common list of powers used by all Arcane classes), but have meta-magic class features that let it expand areas (at the cost of damage), upgrade conditions (slow -> immobilize -> restrain; daze -> stun -> helpless), extend durrations (1 turn -> save ends -> penalty to save ends -> sustainable -> whole encounter), swap damage types or other keywords, or whatever else...
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? Join the Old Guard of 4e"You want The Tooth? You can't handle The Tooth!" - Dahlver-Nar. "If magic is unrestrained in the campaign, D&D quickly degenerates into a weird wizard show where players get bored quickly" - E. Gary Gygax
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2 years ago ::
Nov 02, 2011 - 12:40AM
#8
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Yeah, I agree. The controller's "hook" class feature should have been a meta-magic type function, where the powers could be customized on the fly. The frequent occurances of "Sustain" effects is kinda like this, but these are tied to the powers and not the classes themselves.
Being able to adjust to the needs of the party, being able to make this power slow on one round, and have a larger area the next, would certainly go a long way to creating a controller vibe, and get across the versatility and adaptability that is somewhat implicit in most controllers.
Essentials zigged, when I wanted to continue zagging.
Roll dice, not cars.
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2 years ago ::
Nov 02, 2011 - 12:46AM
#9
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The controller role does not have a trademark feature, which in itself goes a long way to explaining what defines the role: The controller role is defined by having a versatile array of situational abilities they can call on. The spellbooks were supposed to get this across, but they've all more or less failed to make a difference in play, leaving the best controller class feature examples to be Channel Divinity and the Invoker's Covenant Manifestations.
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2 years ago ::
Nov 02, 2011 - 12:52AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2001
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Don't the Invoker's Covenants speak more to secondary roles?
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? Join the Old Guard of 4e"You want The Tooth? You can't handle The Tooth!" - Dahlver-Nar. "If magic is unrestrained in the campaign, D&D quickly degenerates into a weird wizard show where players get bored quickly" - E. Gary Gygax
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