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Oct 16, 2011 -- 12:02PM, AdrianLP wrote:

Oct 16, 2011 -- 11:57AM, Pluisjen wrote:

Also, giving Wizards more spells will probably upset the balance.

Unless it was a Vancian-blend.

AD&D 2e used a Vancian casting system. This meant a wizard might have 100s of spells in their spellbooks, but the beginning of each day the player had to choose which spells his character would memorize that day, and the wizard was limited by how many spells he could cast per day.

A vancian blend in 4e might allow a wizard to potentially have hundreds of spells (like in previous editions), but each in-game day perhaps the wizard would have to choose which spells he has access too on that day.

... in fact, I quite like this idea

Roll out the way back machine...

When I got the 3.o new third edition Player's Handbook in my hands, I was pouring over the overall book when I came across the Wizard and Sorcerer. Now, I am not the brightest bulb on the fixture, but the Sorcerer had different mechanics while the Wizard was stuck shifting spells and having to "Prepare" multiple spells to cast Magic Missile, for example, more than once. I had wondered why both these classes was there, why the Sorcerer still seemed a bit light, and scratched my head over the need to cling to the Vancian casting system.

4th edition took this away, except for the Dailies for the Wizard, and created Rituals (Remember those) to replace the daily preperations and the crafting skills.

Essentials expanded the Vancian aspect to Encounters for the Wizard, to the point that I don't want to play them at all anymore.

Vancian Casting needed to be gone in 3rd Edition, but Wizards wimped out and provided the Sorcerer as an alternative instead. It needed to be completely gone, but the Wizard held on to the last vestiges and Wizards expanded on it in Essentials.

In 5th edition, The Wizard needs to Hot Cast his choices, have access to his spells without having to guess which one to "Prepare" before being in the situation for it. Vancian Casting needs to die. Painfully. With a lot of blood and a long, agonizing last look before exhaling it's last, bubbly breath.

Yeah, I'd say all arcane classes were "wizards" insomuch as they would be required to be part of the Wizards group or be branded an outcast.  Also, there would totally be room for a warlock pact that was sworn to the moons, giving them a strange and eerie connection to one of the three gods of those moons.  Orders of blade, spell and song, possibly letting the background of the setting take place at the end of the War of Souls, with Bahamut and Tiamat . . . I'm sorry Paladin and Thakisis as mortals or dead, the pantheon back to the world, and whole realms of possibility open to players.

I think the biggest thing that works in favor of the DL world is the ability to have clerics and paladins and such of every god, much as there were dark Knights of Thakisis that were essentially eeeeeeevil paladins.

I could see, with the return of the gods, how invoker magic would rise, the use of the primal spirits as an alternative to the ordered ways of religion or the arcane, and even the possible effects that could create a rise in psionic powers.  Dragonborn would be hard to explain, unless they were manufactured as the "good" versions of Draconians to battle said Draconians.

And so on.

Oct 16, 2011 -- 4:43PM, Elemental_Elf wrote:

Oct 16, 2011 -- 3:48PM, kev777 wrote:

The biggest problem I've had to deal with so far is recreating the WoHS.      It's rather challenging with 4e because I don't feel like anything I try is really making them feel like the WoHS.    Previous editions restricted access to schools and granted bonus spells depending on the phases of the moon. but that is rather hard to do in 4e.   I've seen other ideas with themes and feats, but even they don't manage to recreate the WoHS.     Then there is the added problem of what to do with all the other 'arcane' classes in 4e.  Why would anyone care to be a wizard and pass a test (a test that could kill them) if they could just become a non-wizard arcane class?  Clearly any solution has to encompass all the arcane classes or they have to be barred from dragonlance.        

Easy solution: All arcane classes, with the exception of the Bard, are just Wizards who simply have different foci.

An Artifacer is simply a Wizard who likes allies and has an affinity for Magic items. The Sorcerer is simply a Wizard who likes blowing things up. A Swordmage and Bladesinger are simply Wizards who enjoy a bit of swordplay. A Warlock is simply a Wizard who skirts the traditions and utilizes magic from extra-planar beings.

Well some of those classes allow you to use armor which isn't very WoHS like.    With that concept what defines you as a black robe wizard? Would it be only your alignment?    Also, would you force every arcane caster to take the test?   And then what defines you as a Renegade?   Is that a theme, a background, or  feat?    Would a renegade be like the FR's red wizard of thay theme?  If so, don't forget that even though a WoHS has passed the test he could still become a renegade if he dabbles in magic that is forbidden.    And therein lies the problem with 4e there is no such thing as forbidden magical spells because everything that is available to your class is all you'll ever have.  With 4e there are no magical rules that you as a a player must decide to follow.  Then again there are no role playing requirements /restrictions for any of the classes in 4e.     Lastly, how would you allow the moons to influence all these classes?    With moon magic you'll need to ensure that it affects combat.   For example, it should be far more difficult to defeat a black robe when nuitari is in high sanction and your moon is in low sanction.    

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